“Planned Parenthood (PPH), a major provider of contraceptives (and abortion when it fails)…”

>> Abortion services constitute only 3% of PP services. They do provide 1/4 of abortion services in the US.

>> 62% of PP’s services are NOT contraceptive or abortion related http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/what-planned-parenthood-actually-does/2011/04/06/AFhBPa2C_blog.html

>> I’d wager that some of those abortions are provided to women whose NFP failed. They would be among the forty-six percent of women who have abortions who had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html)

“…insists on this “unwanted children” mentality because it cannot make money off people who have responsible attitudes concerning children"

Once again, your logic is completely faulty. Using NFP is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for laying claim to having a responsible attitude towards children on any level. There is no statistical nor valid philosophical / logical backup for that claim.

And…a conservative Roman Catholic apologist has the GALL to talk about who has a responsible attitude towards children? That would be funny if it wasn’t so sickening.

Again I ask you: who are YOU to say who has and has not a responsible attitude towards children and childbearing? Who are YOU to judge the quality of the marriages and family relationships of millions upon millions of people?

Tim,

I write here not as an official representative of Newshounds but as a wife and mother.

I have been married for 25 years and we have used artificial contraception throughout our marriage. Contrary to your self-righteous portrayal of pill (and other bc) users, we, a pair of “sinful” artificial birth control users, have a wonderful, loving, and strong marriage.

You wrote, “This knowledge …has the added advantage of helping a couple to attain pregnancy knowing when pregnancy occurs and this contrasts with the ignorance of the BC method’s mindset.” Your arrogance is astonishing. It so happens we conceived our planned and deeply loved children in the full knowledge of EXACTLY when they were conceived, and in each instance it was a deeply spiritual experience because we had made a conscious decision to conceive. I could just as easily make the argument that the method you consider morally and spiritually superior is nothing more than two animals rutting because its the natural thing to do. Using NFP is not a necessary nor sufficient condition of a deeply emotionally, spiritually and sexually fulfilling relationship. Using birth control has never worked “contrary to a love that solidifies the two even in hard times” for us, and believe me, we have gone through hard times. On the other hand, I know a number of people whose marriages have fallen apart under the strain of having a number unplanned children thanks to “natural” birth control.

Your argument that a couple who uses NFP is more likely to be truly loving is not in any way open to verification – statistically or philosophically. It’s nothing more than smug self-righteous bullshit on your part. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a wild, unprovable and insulting claim. Who are you to pass judgement about the quality of millions of other peoples’ marriages??!!

Tim Butler –
1. The Declaration of Independence is not a Christian document. Not based on Christian principles. Lying is a sin. Do your history.
2. “Schools are supposed to be about educations” Not a plaice to proselytize or force one’s religion on another.
3. Crosses are not being forced out of existence. But like swastikas, we are tired of seeing them in government locations. This is not a theocracy, and there is no State Religion, contrary to you and many other authoritarian “Christian” theocracy supporters’ wishes.
3. There hasn’t been a war fought for my freedom in any way since WWII. And don’t even tell me the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And BTW, I was in the Army (infantry so my life would be on the real front line. I left because of my conscience and a crooked president. (I can think for myself, don’t need Ronnie Reagan’s senile brain trying to dictate right and wrong to me.)
4. I can’t find a single place on government property where it has been replaced by pornography. Well, religious displays forced on me are and obscenity…
5. Sex is immoral?
6. Fundamentalist “Christianity” is an insult to the historical Jesus, who taught free will, to know right from wrong, to stand up to crooked authoritarian religion and government.
7. Exodus 20: 3. Your post-Jesus, invented by crooks “Christianity” is a false religion. Study the scholars, not Pat Robertson.
8. Exodus 20: 9.

Tim Butler wrote “Do you deny that there are groups within our society, not only attempting but succeeding in preventing public expression of Christmas by Christians, on government property as well as in government run schools? Are you blind to the fact that public displays of Christian symbols like the cross are being regulated out of existence by our government while the ability of soldiers to express their faith in the military is being truncated, this even as they die for our freedoms?”

I trust you’re aware that it is NOT the government’s job to do anything that could be seen as promoting one religion above another. That is (and has been, for decades) the principle LEGAL concept under which this country has operated.

From Wikipedia’s article on Lemon v Kurtzman:

The Court’s decision in this case established the “Lemon test”, which details the requirements for legislation concerning religion. It consists of three prongs:

1.The government’s action must have a secular legislative purpose;
2.The government’s action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion;
3.The government’s action must not result in an “excessive government entanglement” with religion.
If any of these 3 prongs are violated, the government’s action is deemed unconstitutional under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Any alleged “preventing public expression of Christmas” that involves a GOVERNMENT body (whether municipal, state or federal) MUST be a result of the Lemon test. IOW, if the City of Topeka wants to erect a Christmas display, to pass the Lemon test, the city MUST ensure that SECULAR elements connected with Christmas are involved. Furthermore, if the city plans to feature this display for many weeks and OTHER religious holidays or festivals take place (such as Hanukkah or Diwali or, as in fairly recent years, Eid al-Adha and Ashura*), symbols or elements of those religious festivities should also appear, especially in cities with sizable non-Christian minority religious groups. Additionally, it’s worth noting that the Eastern Orthodox Christmas doesn’t always coincide with the Western celebration (because the EO calendar is calculated differently, it typically falls a week later) so removing the display could be seen as offensive to various Eastern Orthodox denominations. Of course, most gov’t agencies when doing these displays completely ignore PAGAN traditions (not many signs wishing “Happy Yule” or “Happy Saturnalia” or “Merry Mithras Day”) and are always dismissive of their agnostic and atheist citizens.

As for schools, the major problem is that schools are supposed to be about EDUCATION. Considering the complaints from the right-wing over what a “miserable” job is being done at public schools (the ones that you would describe as “government run”), it’s completely laughable that there’s so much faux outrage about how little Johnny and Susie are being deprived of seeing Christmas decorations in the schools (conversely, foreign language classes would be a haven for “Christmas” in school to show the traditions in other countries). Since 99.999999% of all public school children are out of school for nearly a week (at least) before Christmas Day, expecting schools to literally waste hours of time on the holiday is genuinely stupid. I honestly don’t remember anything special about Christmas in school when I attended public schools X number of decades ago. There was usually chitchat about what everyone hoped to get or what everyone wanted (usually followed up in January with details about what they did get and, more importantly, what they didn’t get) but most of the teachers really didn’t have a lot of time to decorate the classes (at most, our “gift” from the teachers was a “free” day on our last day of classes before the vacation break, especially in junior high and high school—this gave the teachers an extra day to get their gradebooks caught up for the all-important semester exams).

*On a ludicrous side note, when I did a search for “Muslim holidays,” the page came back empty—saying there were NO results. When I changed the search to “Islamic holidays,” what do you suppose the first result was? That’s right—the Wiki article on “Muslim Holidays.”

Gretchen is confusing Sikh with Sith and sees them as the same. She should know better. She works for the Evil Empire.

A classic case of transference in which Gretchen unwittingly clarifies for all that her own religious sensitivity issues are really just a smokescreen for her relentless pursuit of attention.

Underneath, Gretch has a heart of Formica.

Wretchen makes my eyes hurt. Makes me want to bleach them.