Robert: Much. Perhaps, you could start with THE COUSINS WAR.
Kevin: Which Confederacy? I’ll defend each of them.

Paul, it sounds like you’re trying to take the position of defending the Confederacy. Good luck with that one. That battle was settled 150 years ago. If you’d like to reopen the matter, it’s a fairly strange position to take. And if you’re trying to reopen the discussion of whether the US should have declared independence from England in the 18th century, that’s just getting further out into the weeds.

As we’ve discussed, the current situation has to do with a small number of people in Texas, certainly nowhere near a number that could speak for a signifcant part of the state, who are unhappy with the GOP losses in the 2012 election and are acting out. The fit will only last for a little while, and then they’ll go back to their regular activities, as do most tantrum throwers after they’ve exhausted themselves. This is certainly not a case of a group really fighting for independence or defending anything other than their own misunderstanding of the current political situation and their own anger at their inability to unseat the current President.

Historians disagree with me? My goodness, what have I been reading?
CIVIL WAR? Where would that have been?
I am not interested in what a majority thinks on any subject. Majority rule is mob rule. Fewer than a third of the colonists supported the American secession from the British Empire.
By the way, I have no more interest in either of the Bushes than I have in Bill Clinton or Obama. They are all political animals in my view. I don’t care what they do as long as they leave me alone.

Paul, that’s a nice try. Historians disagree with you, and there’s no need to re-argue the Civil War.

The facts we have discussed here are that the people promoting secession in Texas are a small group that is unhappy with how the election turned out. Their recourse has been to lash out in public, even though they know their attempt has no hope of succeeding. It’s the same level of irrationality as celebrities announcing they would move to Canada if Bush was elected in the last decade.

You’re free to disagree with the facts, and to speak your opinions about them. But readers can decide for themselves, and it’s clear that the majority of Americans, including in the state of Texas, are not in agreement with the group petitioning for secession.

A. The South peacefully (and properly) seceded.
B. The North agressively invaded the CSA at Fort
Sumter (a CSA port and fort)
Ergo: The canard is a Yankee one.

Try that again, guys. The point of the secession movement for this small group of people is that they do wish to be independent. Their position is that they don’t want to be part of a country that they say doesn’t represent their views – by reelecting a President they clearly dislike and by maintaining policies they clearly despise.

So their solution is to pick up their bat and ball and go home. They don’t address the serious problems Texas would face in the event that their idea succeeded, because they know their group has no chance of doing so. They just want to have the tantrum in public, where outlets like Fox News and right wing radio can give them publicity.

I agree that we’re looking at a polarized country, and it’s been one for many years now. Fox News has exacerbated this situation in a big way, starting with their drumbeat against the Clinton presidency, followed by their about-face reversal to support the George W. Bush presidency and now their second about-face reversal to drumbeat against President Obama. Years of Fox News and right wing radio constantly trying to ridicule and oppose anything and everything President Obama has done shows a clear pattern.

And if you’re actually trying to advocate that the Confederate States of America during the Civil War were really just fighting “The War Against Northern Aggression”, that canard can only hurt a reasonable argument.

I am saying that it is a movement that supports independence. Secession is not revolution; it is a defense against the overreached of nationalism. From Runnymeade through the Glorious Revolution; the American Revolution(secession); the CSA.

Patrick Henry refused to attend the Constitutional Convention: “I smell a rat,” he said. He smelled nationalism not federalism.

Not sure what you’re getting at, Paul. This is not an independence movement. It’s a small group of people who don’t like how the election turned out. It would be the same as a left-leaning group from another state announcing secession after George W. Bush got into office. I haven’t heard anything from them to indicate that there is anything more serious in their thought than that.

It’s one thing to announce the holding of higher ideals, or to strive for something better. These guys just don’t like how the elections went so they want to take their bat and ball and go home. They also have not thought about what the actual consequences for their state would be – in terms of a crippling loss of funding and a sudden loss of benefits and conditions that Texans, like all Americans, reasonably expect.

The Declaration of Independence is hardly the only declaration of independence.

Not sure that this small group of Texans is following anything like the Declaration of Independence. This is more like a temper tantrum following an election that the hard right wing thought they were going to win in a landslide.

But even if we were to follow this logic, what would these Texans be trying to do? Do they believe they could set up an independent nation within their borders? Seriously?

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
ANTI-AMERICAN? REALLY!

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
ANTI-AMERICAN? REALLY!

From doors17’s comment:

“All we’re witnessing is a bunch of poor pouting losers needing a pacifier. Try holding your breath that usually works.”

Yes doors17 — it certainly worked for Baby Finster in that classic Bugs Bunny short “Baby Buggy Bunny” which is still on YouTube.

:^)

At least we won’t have those idiotic Texas politicians like Dumbya and Gov Helmethair running for President anymore.

If FOX ever wans to know what fair and balacned news is all about they should tune in Al Jazeera! They do an excellent job of telling BOTH sides of an issue and letting YOU decide which one makes most sense to you. As for FOX claiming they have an Arab bias I guess FOX forgets their OBVIOUS BIAS for conservatives even to the point of making up lies to paint them as the good guys and liberals as scum of the Earth!

On the plus side, we’d have some serious redistricting going on in the other 49 states, getting to split up Texas’s 36 districts*. (I’d imagine at least a dozen of them would go to the current 1-seat and 2-seat states with the remaining 2 dozen splitting up among the “big” gain states and some of the mid-range states that have had population growth but not enough to merit an extra Congressional district.) I’m not sure how this would affect the Electoral College since DC is only guaranteed the “minimum” number of votes, but I imagine a Texasless Electoral College would only have 536 votes.**

*Federal law set the House of Representatives membership at 435 back in the early 1960s.

**From the 435 HR component, the 98 Senate-seat component plus DC’s 3.

There’s a few recommendations I have heard elsewhere about this which were enlightening.

One was to do a parallel petition for all those signing onto the secession idea to have their citizenship revoked on the basis that they are announcing that they no longer wish to be part of the United States.

Another would be for a petition to terminate all federal aid, as noted below. This would also include withdrawing the entire Border Patrol from the area, which I don’t believe would sit well with Texans.

But the idea that really caught my attention was to simply bar Texas from participating in NCAA, NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA and any other United States sports organizations. Because, again, if they don’t want to be citizens of this country then they must also no longer wish to have their teams play anyone from any other state. If these guys lost their football, I guarantee you’d hear them singing a very different song.

good, now we can give the 50th star to a real state.

MJ, the only way I’d bet you is if I got a peek at how good the “Chicano Reconquista” looks. The gangs tied to them stateside can hit harder than a sledge on a bad day, and the GOP’s racist tirade against Mexico has gotten them a lot of support on both sides.

72 hours could be given Texans a lot of credit.

@mj — "If Texas secedes from the US, I give it no more than 72 hours before it becomes Mexico’s property — again. "

Based on the latest demographics we’re pretty much there or damned close to it.

There is a related movement for west Texas to secede from the state of Texas (and petition to join New Mexico.) I’m fairly sure Texas would lose the Austin area and most of the border as well. If this fantasy ever came to fruition, The ‘nation’ of Texas would probably look like shrunken version of itself with a big hole in the middle. Thanks Fox for not missing an opportunity to give duh-Stupid-America a voice.

Does this mean the Dallas Cowboys will no longer be America’s Team?

It’ll never happen since they’ll never want to surrender their federal dollars from the government that they supposedly like to pretend to hate so much. In fact they can begin by refusing any federal aid. Start there, then come back and tell us about your desire to secede from the union. All we’re witnessing is a bunch of poor pouting losers needing a pacifier. Try holding your breath that usually works. Otherwise I’m enjoying the show listening to their bitterness.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

If Texas secedes from the US, I give it no more than 72 hours before it becomes Mexico’s property — again.

.

Memo to Fox News: it's hard to be more anti-American than promoting secession.

Don’t let the door hit your TexASS on your way out!