Were Bret Baier’s unexpectedly tough questions to Donald Trump due to the Murdochs’ known desire to be rid of him in this election? The embarrassing revelations about journalist Baier’s connivance in Fox’s 2020 disinformation? Some combination of both?
If you haven't seen the interview, I highly recommend it for the unusual treat of watching Trump get grilled on Fox, even though Baier let some of Trump's lies go, such as the one about leading Biden in the polls "by a lot." (Spoiler: RealClear Politics' average, which includes GOP polls such as Rasmussen, has Trump leading by 2.4 points; FiveThirtyEight's average, all polls within the margin of error, has Trump up by 1.2)
Whatever the reason for Baier's tough questions, we know that journalism, especially regarding Donald Trump, is never the motivation on Fox News. We also know that Baier was disgraced in various revelations about his willingness to put MAGA lies about the facts in public, even as he acknowledged the truth privately: He was caught strategizing with Tucker Carlson on how to “slow walk” calling 2020 election results so that other networks would go first and give Fox cover; Even worse, he complained about how “really uncomfortable” it was to keep defending Fox’s early Arizona call and urged the president of the company to reverse it. Baier also whitewashed Trump’s 2021 comments about the “stolen election” in July of that year.
Yesterday, Baier persistently fact-checked Trump on his 2020 election lies
So it seems very unlikely Baier confronted Trump on the subject in last night’s interview out of a commitment to journalism. Especially when he suggested that the only problem Republicans might have with Trump is that he can’t win in 2024.
BAIER: But what do you say to the voter who really liked many of your policies?
TRUMP: They still do.
BAIER: But they can't handle the scandals or the controversies or the name calling, or the vitriol. What do you say to that voter who's worried of that, that all leads to a general election loss?
TRUMP: So, based on the polls, I'm leading Biden by a lot. Based on the polls, I'm leading all of the Republicans by a lot. By 40 points, and more.
Right now, I have the best polls I've ever had. People see this stuff for what it is. It's a political witch hunt, it's a continuation.
BAIER: More independent voters watch Fox News than any other T.V. source.
TRUMP: A lot less than used to watch it.
…
BAIER: They usually make up all the difference in the election. And so, to the female independent voter in the suburbs, who struggled with family financing because of inflation, she is now against Biden, disapproves of Biden, but wasn't with you in 2020, and so far, is a hard no for you in 2024.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You're not looking at the right polls, Bret.
BAIER: What do you say to that -- what do you say to that female independent suburban voter who feels that way to win her back?
TRUMP: First of all, I won in 2020 by a lot, OK? Let's get that straight. I won in 2020.
BAIER: You know that's not what the votes show.
TRUMP: And if you look at all of the tape, you look at everything that you want to look at. You take a look at truth to vote where they have people stuffing the ballot boxes on tapes or --
BAIER: Mr. President, that's all been looked into.
…
TRUMP: Bret, you take a look at all of this stuffed ballots, you take a look at all of the things including things like the 51 intelligence agents.
BAIER: There were recounts in all the swing states, there was not significant widespread fraud.
TRUMP: We're trying to get recounts, real recounts.
BAIER: There were investigations of widespread corruption, there was not a sense of that, there were lawsuits, more than 50 of them by your lawyers, some in front of judges, judges that you appointed.
TRUMP: Look at Wisconsin.
BAIER: That came up with no evidence.
TRUMP: Wisconsin is practically admitted it was rigged. Other states are doing the same right now and it's continuing.
BAIER: There've been reviews of every potential case of voter fraud in six battleground states. And they found fewer than 475 cases.
Baier confronts Trump for attacking the “best people” he hired, now blasting him over the serious charges in the Mar-a-Lago case
My favorite part of the interview was when Baier confronted Trump about his childish attacks on the people he hired for top positions in his administration who are now speaking out against him. Baier obviously had this question teed up in advance:
BAIER: Your Vice President, Mike Pence, is running against you, your ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, she's running against you, your former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said he's not supporting you.
You mentioned National Security Adviser John Bolton, he's not supporting you either. You mentioned Attorney General Bill Barr says you shouldn't be president again. He calls you the consummate narcissist and troubled man, you recently called Barr a gutless pig. Your second defense secretary is not supporting you, called you irresponsible.
This week, you and your White House -- called your White House Chief of Staff John Kelly, weak and ineffective and born with a very small brain. You called your acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney a born loser. You called your first Secretary of State Rex Tillerson dumb as a rock and your first Defense Secretary James Mattis, the world's most overrated general, you called your White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany milk toast and multiple times, you've referred to your Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao as Mitch McConnell's China loving wife. So, why did you hire all of them in the first place?
TRUMP: Because I hired 10 to one that were fantastic. We had a great economy, we had phenomenal people in charge of the economy. We had phenomenal people in the military.
I'm not a fan of Milley, and I'm not a fan of certain of the television people. But I knocked out ISIS, I defeated ISIS, they said, Mattis, it will take three years and I don't think we can do it. I did it in a period of like four weeks.
…
BAIER: I want to talk about foreign policy. But just to leave this, you have former senior adviser Steve Cortes, saying it's going to be tough for you to get the best and the brightest because of some of the name calling of people who left.
Baier also pressed Trump on his improper possession and handling of classified and other material
Baier asked Trump why he didn’t just return the material he wasn’t supposed to have. I have a feeling Trump’s answer, that he deliberately did not comply with the subpoena for the documents, did not help his legal case.
TRUMP: Because I had boxes. I want to go through the boxes and get all my personal things out. I don't want to hand that over to NARA yet, and I was very busy, as you've sort of seen.
BAIER: Yes.
TRUMP: I've been very, very busy.
BAIER: But according to the indictment, you then, tell this aide to move [the boxes] to other locations, after telling your lawyers to say you'd fully complied with the subpoena, when you hadn't.
TRUMP: Bret, before I send boxes over, I have to take all of my things out. These boxes were interspersed with all sorts of things: Golf shirts, clothing, pants, shoes, there were many things. I would say much --
(CROSSTALK)
BAIER: Iran, one of them?
TRUMP: Much more -- not that I know of -- but not that I know of.
But everything was declassified. And Biden didn't have the right to do that, because he wasn't president. Nor did Mike Pence, by the way have the right to do that, because he wasn't president.
My personal feeling is that Baier’s “change of perspective” had to be at least somewhat directed from above. He may have been a bit more enthusiastic about it after the damage to his reputation I previously mentioned.
This interview may signal something of a shift in Fox’s attitude toward Trump. It speaks volumes that Trump was on with Baier and not Hannity or a browner-nosed toady. But, as I’ve previously said, this does not mean Fox is done with Trump, as some pundits seem so eager to declare. See, for example, Fox legal analyst Jonathan Turley reclaim his perch on the MAGA defense team after declaring the latest indictment against Trump “extremely damning,” “highly incriminating” and “not an indictment that you can dismiss.” Should Trump become the nominee, you can be certain Fox will fall in line with him faster than you can say, "Trump University."
One other thing is for sure: Baier’s interview is not proof that Fox is suddenly more interested in practicing real journalism. I’d like to think it’s a start but I’ll need to see a lot more like this before I come to anything close to that conclusion.
Meanwhile, you can watch the first 21:43 minutes of the interview below, from the June 19, 2023 Special Report.