I really do hope you stick around. I think that if you got out of the echo chamber that is Fox News,and were around people who actually thought about issues,and discussed them instead of knee-jerk reacting to them,you’d find a much more peaceful outlook.

Whether or not that happens,I wish you well. And good luck with your furthering education! It’s a grand and noble thing,even if it came about through bad times.

“Liberals have the right to believe as many lies they are told and I have the right not to believe lies that I am told.”

You either can’t understand the issues at hand,or are being willfully ignorant because the answers are not what you wish them to be. I can sympathise. However,it doesn’t change the fac taht you are fundamentally WRONG on the issues,ma’am.

“I will still vote for a cock roach before I vote for him, and keep this in mind; If you think the gun sales have been going up a lot recently, there will be plenty of people, like me, who do not currently own a gun but will hot tail it to the gun shop if Obama is re elected. "

And this is supposed to frighten anyone? Lady,I’m a lifelong liberal. I’m also a lifelong firearms owner. You might be VERY surprised at just how many of us ‘weak lib’ruls’ believe in the 2nd amendment. So,with that said,please pass on to your Conservative friends this message: “Come at me,bro.”

I won’t hold my breath. And I certainly won’t be afraid. I think perhaps,that youj are afraid though and you should not be. None of us want to harm anyone,certainly not a fellow citizen of this Country. We believe in standing united against common threats,not attacking fellow citizens. I smell more right-wing lies and manipulations here. Point to remember: When some Conservative nutcase ‘friend’ tells you that liberals all want to take guns away,It’s a LIE.

“Just because we still can, which he will take that right away pretty quick if re elected.”

Yes,because President Obama has done SO GOOOOD at this so far,right? Wait,wasn’t this also a scare tactic of 2008? That Obama,the crazed liberalnazisocialistcommunist,would take away your guns? How’s that working out for you? What?? It hasn’t happened? Well color me surprised.

Dearest lady,no one here wants you to not have a job. No one here wants to take away your home. No one here wants to deny you your religion,your guns,your pride. What we do want is for you to be INFORMED. To not be duped by snake-oil salesmen who sell you on pipe-dreams,gold futures,and malarky. Frankly,from the smell of the doomsday prep,you’d been fed a steady diet of this. Note: I will defend your right to your opinion,I don’t have to agree with it. Doing so,is after all,the liberal thing to do.

L2: And just what lies were those? You can’t name any. I responded to your rather long rant in detail. “Specificity,” as Sheer InSannity would say.

As for gun sales, you are falling for the same lie that took people in four years ago.

Finally – here’s the problem with your “experience.” It isn’t working. Your are bitter, filled with hate, and friendless.

Not to mention extraordinarily unhappy.

Get off the ClusterFux crackpipe. They feed fear and hate. They need that to survive. Don’t be a victim any longer. Learn to think for yourself.

It’s a beautiful world out there. And we have a wonderful country. Why do all those people who claim to be patriots hate America so much?

Stop listening to those fools!

Laura, you have not answered any of the reasonable statements and facts I have presented to you. Instead, you have referred to some kind of “lies” that you do not specify, and which you say you don’t believe.

Your comment about gun sales is a bit disturbing, however. You seem to be saying that you intend to buy a gun after Obama is reelected. For what purpose are you doing this? Why do you need to own a gun? What do you plan to do with it?

And if you think Obama “has ruined this country”, what exactly do you mean? Your assertions have already been disproven and debunked, so what evidence do you have to support your thinking?

Liberals have the right to believe as many lies they are told and I have the right not to believe lies that I am told. I will still vote for a cock roach before I vote for him, and keep this in mind; If you think the gun sales have been going up a lot recently, there will be plenty of people, like me, who do not currently own a gun but will hot tail it to the gun shop if Obama is re elected. Just because we still can, which he will take that right away pretty quick if re elected. Obama has ruined this country, you go by your personal experience and I will go by mine.

Laura Lie-Ons:

Sen. Byrd repeatedly said joining the Klan was the biggest mistake of his life. And he worked hard to make up for it.

He was no Strom Thurmond, now was he?

Or Boss “I wasn’t wrong; I was misinformed” BlunderRush…

Laura, let’s examine your claims in order and see if there is any truth to them. Once we get past the talking points, they become fairly simple to dicuss.

Obama was not a member of the Weather Underground, and at the time he met Bill Ayers, Ayers was a local community member and teacher. Obama did not start his political career in Ayers’ living room – he visited many households on a single day as part of a local outreach to get votes when he was running for office. Ayers himself has said that he doesn’t know Obama any better than most Chicagoans, and Obama knows him as a community member. Not much of a tie there.

Obama’s support as a student for a popular professor like Derrick Bell is not surprising or sinister. This doesn’t mean that he, or any other former student of Bell’s, automatically endorses every opinion of Bell’s. Breitbart’s “gotcha” video is old material that was seen in 2008. It wasn’t an issue then, and isn’t an issue now.

Your reference to Agenda 21 is confusing. This is a recommended environmental approach that many countries are pursuing – it’s non-binding and seems to be a sensible way of dealing with a serious problem. Again, this isn’t an issue for anyone watching these matters closely. Alex Jones and Glenn Beck’s conspiracy theories aside, this is just a discussion of public policy. It’s not a surprise that Nancy Pelosi or any other member of Congress would discuss it. They should, and do.

As for gas prices, we should remember that gas prices soared under George W. Bush’s watch and only dropped right before he left office, due to the collapse of our economy at that time. The prices of course had dropped pretty far by the time Obama was sworn in, and then proceeded to start climbing back up.
It’s more accurate to think of them as having had a major dip in the middle of a large rise than to say that Obama has deliberately caused the prices to rise.

The long-term thought about oil and gas, by both Democrats and Republicans, is to find another source of energy – one that is cheaper and is renewable. George W. Bush discussed hydrogen powered cars. Obama has discussed other possibilities. The idea isn’t to overcharge people for driving – it’s to find another solution which will be cheaper for everyone. Taking major risks with our environment with unsafe drilling (as happened with BP in Louisiana) is both a dangerous option and one that will not bear fruit in the way the GOP candidates say. First, it will take years and billions of dollars for a new drilling project to produce oil in any usable quantities to affect our prices at the gas station. More crucially, we don’t have enough oil in places like ANWAR for this to help us very long – it would be more like a band aid on a more serious problem. And the whole Keystone XL Pipeline matter is one where many of the parties involved asked for significant studies to be done on both the risks it poses and on the environmental impact – nobody wants to see something devastating happen on that pipeline or at its source, and rushing into it may have a result even worse than what happened with BP. The GOP talking points omit that idea to just take a cheap shot at Obama in an election year. Newt Gingrich is banking on the fact that most people don’t know that information and think he can somehow magically drop the price of oil by decree. He can’t, and he knows that.

Obama did not start a race war in this country. He was and is the target of multiple racial smears, based solely on his race, by people who were and are intolerant of the notion of a black president. The entire birth certificate controversy is but one example of this. I have yet to see a single way that Obama as President has somehow made it more difficult for white Americans as any kind of a sop to Black Americans. He has governed from the center on pretty much every issue, and I have yet to see how his policies are somehow designed to only help people of a single race over another.

As for abortion and women’s reproductive health, it is incorrect and inflammatory to say that liberals support “infanticide.” It would be more accurate to say that liberals and progressives support the right of the woman to choose whether she is able to take a pregnancy to term and care for a new child. They support the woman’s right to decide the timing of when she gets pregnant and to make her own decisions about her health. I would think that conservatives would appreciate that it is improper for the State to tell people how to manage their own bodies – any libertarian would tell you that the State should stay out of it.

That said, the bills you mention from Illinois were not in any danger of passing, and were understood at the time in a different way than you are presenting them. Those bills were a trio of “Liveborn” laws that were intended to get Democratic state legislators in conservative districts to vote against them. The bills all passed by a wide margin, and their passage was not in doubt. The point was to make several senators vote either “Yes” and alienate the women in their districts (as the bills were known to be anti-choice and as harshly constructed as possible to make the women out to be baby killers) or vote “No” and risk having the votes immediately used against them in their next campaigns in those districts. Karl Rove would have been proud of the triangulation. But Illinois law permits the legislators to simply vote “present” as a way of saying no without giving the pundits an instant talking point. Obama voted with these senators as a strategy they were all taking – specifically to allow the present votes to not just be the guys who were in those districts. This strategy was worked out between the senators and pro-choice organizations in the area as a counter to what the GOP was trying to do to them.

And by the way, Obama’s “present” votes made up something like 3 percent of his record as a state senator. He did it 129 times out of thousands of votes he cast. And almost all of those times, it was for a strategy like this one, which was not a matter of him not being able to make up his mind but instead dealing with obvious instances of people trying to play political games rather than tackle the issues for which they were elected.

As for a “War on Christianity”, this is yet another GOP talking point that has no basis in reality. Obama is a Christian who regularly attends church. But, like every president before him, he recognizes there’s a line between church and state – particularly as it comes to people observing their religious rights. That does not mean he condones or endorses one religion’s practices over another. And I’d be curious to hear exactly where you got the idea that Obama or any Democrat supports anyone of any religion beating or raping their wives or killing their daughters. The only thing he has asked for is tolerance toward other people’s customs (on observance, not on people attacking each other, as you know) – and it sounds like you disagree with him on that.

As for the economy and Detroit, things continue to be sluggish. They have improved since Obama got into office, but it will take a long time to dig out. Keep in mind that the economy was in freefall when Bush left office, and that we were losing millions of jobs at that time. Under Obama, the plummet slowed and finally stopped several months into his presidency. Since then, he’s been trying various ways to stimulate the economy, to get the engine to turn over again. And at every step he’s taken, the GOP in congress have thrown an almost universal “NO” vote to either delay or stop whatever the Democrats try to do. Had the GOP succeeded on all of their attempts on this, the economy would have bottomed out a lot lower and a lot harder for everyone, and the only response they’ve offered would have been lower taxes for the highest earners – who would most likely have continued to keep their money offshore and just pay less taxes here at home – just as they have done consistently over the past 20 years.

So now that you’ve read some of the facts rebutting these talking points, what is your response?

Laura Lie-Ons:

LL:
That is one of the most brain-dead rants I’ve read in a long, long time. I can’t address all your crazy – I’m just going to hit a few high points.

You wrote “So when Obama said in 2008 that he wanted to increase gas prices and then said the other day in his speech that he didn’t want to do that, that would not be considered a lie?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Tmi_fpUHs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4yFsaxw6L8&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRuXrbjlrRg&feature=related .”

Yes, you are telling a lie. Mr. Obama said he would prefer a gradual increase in gasoline prices to the sudden economic shock of a spike. That’s simply common sense. I know you don’t understand this, but we live in a world economy with worldwide demand for oil.

You wrote: “As I grew up, I was taught to judge a person by their character and not the skin color, as I have taught my children. I believe this was MLK’s vision for America.” Aren’t you special! You want credit for breathing, too?

“Now, because the economy is in the pooper, I have been unable to find a job to raise my children.” This, of course, has nothing to do with race and precious little about Mr. Obama. But go ahead and vent if it makes you feel better.

{Venting}

“Back to race,” [you never left, but OK]…” The comes the racial rant taking you nowhere.
“President Obama HAS started a race war, he has stoked fires, that for many, were burning out. He has brought it to the front and I feel it every day.” That is simply beyond nonsense. Did you bother to listen to Mr. Obama’s speech on race during the 2008 campaign? Further, I seriously doubt Mr. Obama personally called every Black student at your CC and told her or him to give you a hard time.

“I never used to have to stop and think about things and now I do because I feel like I have to be ready to defend myself with every comment or action.” Based on your rant you still aren’t exactly “thinking about things,” at least not in a meaningful or logical manner. But don’t give up. Keep trying.

“I used to have many black friends, all of which don’t want to be friends anymore. I think it is because I am white.” No, it’s probably because you aren’t very quick on the uptake. You are astonishly negative and bitter. Why would anyone want to be your friend?

Or, again, Mr. Obama called your friends like the called Saundra Fluke and told them to unfriend you. I think that’s probably it.

You completely misrepresent Mr. Obama’s position and votes in the Illinois Senate. You are parroting right wing nutz’ talking points – not facts.

But you manage to top that with even a worse lie about “… the article I read the other day, which was posted in a medical journal…” which I won’t bother to repeat because it’s just industrial-strength crazy. I remember that deranged nurse who claimed people in China eat babies. You’re right up there with her, Sister.

“Liberal mindset.” Hardly. Is the “Rev.” Fred Phelps and the Westborough Baptist Church the “conservative mindset.” The defrocked weatherman here in the Bay Area, Brian Sussman, tried to paint those fools as liberals. He refuses to admit they are fringe conservatives. They are. But I don’t see them as representing any group other that Wakkos.

“Ok, how about the war on Christianity, Obama and his lib zombies sure are all for Islam and letting them change everything from prayer in school to blocking main streets to beating and raping their wives and killing their daughters according to the 1st Amendment, but forbid anyone that want to bow their head in a public place as a Christian.” How screwed up anyone who would believe, let alone repeat, such lies? You speak for yourself.

“More people still on food stamps than in decades. How is that improvement?” So your point is people who need help shouldn’t get help? Are you of the Herman Cain persuasion? Poor people are suffering from a poverty of character, not a lack of money?
“…enlighten me on how this country has improved.” I’ve done my best, but it’s an uphill struggle, believe me!

When you folks say Obama’s ties to all these people is irrelevant, think again, it is very relevant. Just like Byrd’s fleeting time in the KKK. Grand Pu Bah is not a fleeting thing, he was in charge of the KKK, highest ranking member. That did not happen over night, ya know. That took years for him to accomplish. But you can’t see that. Ayers is a radical and he is not black. What about Agenda 21, and don’t say it doesn’t exist, because I watched a video of Pelosi in front of congress and she mentioned it by name, more than once. It is all out there, look it up.

So when Obama said in 2008 that he wanted to increase gas prices and then said the other day in his speech that he didn’t want to do that, that would not be considered a lie?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4Tmi_fpUHs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4yFsaxw6L8&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRuXrbjlrRg&feature=related . I am a horituculturist and like the green movement, but I can not afford what he is forcing upon us.

Now about race in America. As I grew up, I was taught to judge a person by their character and not the skin color, as I have taught my children. I believe this was MLK’s vision for America. Now, because the economy is in the pooper, I have been unable to find a job to raise my children. Subsequently, I am now a full time student with the hopes of finding a job after graduation. And yes I have even applied for flipping burgers but I have been told I am over qualified, translation, I used to make 40,000 a year and they don’t want to pay me 7.25 an hour because they know I will not be happy with that. So after lay off, my skills were outdated and I need to freshen them up just to compete in the job market. Back to race, as a student at a community college we have many black students. As I walk down the hall, I can feel the stares from them, I have heard the remarks in class that shock me but are allowed by the instructors because they are afraid to say anything because they don’t want to be called racist. I have NEVER in my life felt the hate. I have NEVER in my life disliked someone for the color of their skin. President Obama HAS started a race war, he has stoked fires, that for many, were burning out. He has brought it to the front and I feel it every day. I never used to have to stop and think about things and now I do because I feel like I have to be ready to defend myself with every comment or action. I never did offensive thing and tried to always consider those around me with my words and actions, but now I fear physical reactions. That is sad. VERY sad. I used to have many black friends, all of which don’t want to be friends anymore. I think it is because I am white. And before you go and say “How does it feel.” Think for a minute, I NEVER treated anyone like that, there is NO reason for anyone to treat me like that.
Now lets talk about infanticide, which most libs support. There was a bill in Ill. that was opposed to letting babies die that were survivors of abortions. The bill was for them to receive medical attention. Obama voted “present” therefore, voting against it. Essentially, letting babies die without medical attention, to be left alone after they were strong enough to survive an abortion, just die. That is the most horrible, HORRIBLE, thing I have heard in a long time until the article I read the other day, which was posted in a medical journal, that once a baby was born, if it had any defects, to include being a girl, that doctors could kill it. It is called “after birth abortion.” Liberal mindset. Won’t spank your kid but you have no problem snuffing them out.
Ok, how about the war on Christianity, Obama and his lib zombies sure are all for Islam and letting them change everything from prayer in school to blocking main streets to beating and raping their wives and killing their daughters according to the 1st Amendment, but forbid anyone that want to bow their head in a public place as a Christian. How screwed up is that?? DO NOT tell me for a minute that Obama has improved this country. He has set us back 50 years in racial equality, he is all for killing babies, gas prices have doubled. WOW and you think the economy is improving because a couple of cities have improved, what about Detroit? They are virtually a ghost town. More people still on food stamps than in decades. How is that improvement? If 20 people are hired to work and 40 get layed off at the same time, that is not improvement. That is one step forward and 2 steps back.
So, enlighten me on how this country has improved. Please.

Yakki – If I had a hat I’d doff it to you. Excellent comment!

@Laura Lyons – When President Obama first threw his hat in the ring I told my husband that the GOP is going to drive themselves crazy trying to find skeletons in his closet. It has become more and more evident I was correct. I have had 3 surgeries in the past 4 years and had a lot of time on my hands to do the research. Truly, there is no ‘there’ there. Every time Fux comes up with another scandal it has always come up asless fragile as than a paper lion. Do your blood pressure a favor and take a break from your hatred and suspicion.

I find it so amazing that you rabid rightwingnuts keep saying things about race wars and calling President Obama a nazifascistcommunistsocialistracist but yet nothing has panned out. If you are correct, I guess he best be hurrying since he only has 10 months to put his evil plans in action.

I’m sorry, but the ONLY thing that our President has going ‘against’ him is his race (and only half of that). If you are not a racist, then I’d like for you to tell us exactly what evidence you have to back up your claims. No CONSERVATIVE sources allowed. I have challenged about 25 conservative friends and acquaintances. None, so far, have come up with anything.

@ Laura Lyons- whenever anybody invokes Periplaneta americana,Blattella germanica, or,Blatta orientalis,
I’mput inmind of a character from one of Peter Gent’s novels who tells of another character nicknamed the cocroach- “notfor what he ate or drug away,but for what he fell into and messed up”. Inwhich case virtually all Republicans occupy that species niche and the clown car slate of possibles you’ve drug out this year are may be a variety of Gromphadorhina portentosa the Madagascar hissing cockroach one of the largest species of cockroach in the world. I’m sure you’ll hear this in all sorts of ways but it comes to your Republican buddies better be careful what they wish for.

To Laura Lyons: You are seriously misinformed, as everyone else here said. But you’re entitled to your opinion. But treat us with respect. Do not call those who have differing opinions “duped dummies”
To those who insulted this woman for having her own opinion, even if it is based on misinformation: Shame on you. Instead of calling her names and insulting her, how about you try to respectfully show her the facts. Just because someone calls you stupid doesn’t mean you need to outdo them in insults. It’s called being the better person.

Antoinette:

Is that why Hannity had to pull out of Huntsville?

omg really? this is what the 3 stooges are all upset about? hahahahah clownshoes!!!

Ok…I’ve finally figured it out. Every time one of these right-wing types uses the word “radical” simply replace it with the word “black”. Their message finally becomes crystal clear.

Laura Lyons : I’m sorry ma’am,but you can’t prove a negative.

You seem to think there is some ‘there’ there,with repsects to President Obama. Yet you don’t really bring anything to the table.

So we are to blindly ‘research’ in minutae the President(which has already been done time and again). What are we looking for? Is there some secret that we are to find,that your Breitbart,Hannity,O’reilly,et al. haven’t found?

You say it’s so horrible in the country,yet….the economy is improving. Unemployment is going down. Housing is starting to pick back up. People are suriviving and doing better than they were when El Shrubo left office. Obama,to most liberals has proven to not be the liberal they had hoped. He’s a centrist if nothing else,and a right leaning Democrat at the worst. And yet,you all are not happy. You can’t stand it. Why?

Personally,I think the Right Wing of this country is invested in failure. They have excuses lined up when they fail,and when the other side fails they have their war paint ready. But when things don’t go that way,meaning,the other side(as usual) DOESN’T fail,they’re lost. It then becomes what it usually does,a smear fest. A sudden victimization of the right wing. Boo hoo. Pity us.

I’m sorry you feel so put upon. But ask yourself this….while you were telling liberal thinkers ‘LEAVE AMURKAH!’ And ’YOU’RE WITH US OR AGIN’ US!‘….did you happen to think how it was going to feel when the shoe was on the other foot? No,I bet you didn’t. I bet you had no idea what it would be like,or what the backlash would be like for acting like assholes to everyone while pumping your nationalist fist. Well,this is what it feels like. Welcome to it.

My suggestion: Stop crying and playing the victim. You all paid for this lesson with your mouth,your attitude and your total disregard for everyone else in this country. You have no one to cry to but yourself,or your pastor. I’d suggest trying the latter so you don’t feel like you’re in an echo chamber,

Does anyone believe that conservative scum such as Ms. Magalang and Klannity practice their faux indignation in their dressing rooms before appearing on air? Are those two the result of what selling your soul looks like? They are creaming their panties (and yes Klannity wears them too) over a 22 yr. old video that was aired and has been available to anyone for the last four years as definite proof that Pres. Obama is a black, radical, anti-American socialist and race-baiter??? All because he gave a hug to a black law professor who believes that racism still exists even after the Civil Rights Act. Want proof, go scroll through the Faux Nation website.

Breitbart sure fooled us. Thought he had video of Pres. Obama leading a drum circle or a May Day rally at the least. He had to go to PBS for his pre-death source material. What’s next for Klannity, sourcing Olbermann for his anti-Obama material???