Forbes On Fox Panelist: Police And Fire Fighters Should Be Thanking Us For Their Jobs

Forbes on Fox discussed Vice President Biden saying “we owe” public union workers for the work they do. Host David Asman set the tone for the discussion by saying, “We don’t owe them, they owe us.”

Steve Forbes said, “Everyone appreciates what firefighters do, what police officers do, what teachers should do, but that’s what they get paid for. But the abuses are enormous, David, in terms of benefits, abuse of overtime, and pay is determined not by what the market will pay, but purely political muscle, so… costs spin out of control.”

John Tamny said his fellow panelists were being “entirely too soft on Vice President Biden. What this reminds us of is something very basic. Governments do not create jobs, instead they tax or borrow from the productive private sector to create jobs that pay more, that offer more benefits, offer more vacation. This thing about how we owe them, no, no, they should be thanking us and they should be very grateful to us taxpayers for giving off this tax revenues that allow them to live very nice lives at our expense and very often for doing very little.”

David Asman’s face lit up with excitement. “Steve Forbes, I don’t think you’ve often been too soft on criticizing Vice President Joe Biden, but maybe John’s right! I don’t know.”

Forbes said, “When you allow… abuse of overtime, abuse of benefits, double dipping, triple dipping as you have here in the State of New York, thing spins out of control.”

Rick Ungar said, “John, I hope you never have a fire at your house. I really mean that. Because you can’t vilify these guys who are doing an important job. We can have a very reasonable discussion, and it’s a discussion that needs to be had about how we pay these people and some of the things that are going on, but let’s not vilify people doing dangerous work for our benefit.”

Tamny insisted he wasn’t vilifying them but saying “ “Wait a second, …they get pensions that we don’t get in the private sector. They get far more vacation than what we get in the private sector, they clearly get paid more, and I don’t think the effort they expend matches what they get paid and what their benefits are.”

Ungar said, Tell that to the family of a fallen police officer.”

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Showing 17 reactions

Kent Brockman commented 2012-06-25 20:26:04 -0400 · Flag

Peak Capitalist say

Speculation is all we have left, and unless we privatize the pension fund, police, fire etc. we’ll be running out of stuff to generate Our Wealth. Help keep Peak Capitalism humming, give us all your life supports!

Brian M commented 2012-06-25 16:54:52 -0400 · Flag

Interesting words from Tamny. This, coming from the same network that brays about “class warfare.” This guy is promoting it; vs. the middle class.

Brian M commented 2012-06-25 16:48:28 -0400 · Flag

I also take exception to Forbes’ comment “…what teachers SHOULD do,” implying that teachers don’t do their job. What a fuck, I can’t believe he came so close to the presidency.

Joseph West commented 2012-06-25 14:18:35 -0400 · Flag

Martin, you forgot something. (Bear in mind, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here, so take the following with a touch of snark.)

“Ask the CEO or under person what happens if they have a bad dayâ¦the answer is someone gets in trouble or yelled at.” Or gets demoted or loses their job though that’s more likely to some underling rather than the CEO or top folks. (And let’s not forget that poor CEO whose company just posted its 10th consecutive quarterly 8-figure loss and he’s fired for that continued poor performance. Then, he’s got to figure out how he’s going to afford living on a measly $250 million “severance package”—not counting his stock options and lifetime company-paid-for health coverage and the various other perks he made sure would be due to him for his “service” to the company during the whole 3 years he worked for it.)

Martin Judd commented 2012-06-25 14:01:55 -0400 · Flag

I really have a hard time wrapping my head around this one. I don’t know of any CEOs that when they kiss their family goodbye in the morning have to wonder if they will see them again at the end of the day. So I am to take it that sitting in an office and watching money grow is worth more than going and risking the one life you get issued every time the bell goes off.

A great argument that can be thrown right back at these people is this: Ask the CEO or under person what happens if they have a bad day…the answer is someone gets in trouble or yelled at. Ask the Firefighter/Police/Paramedic what happens if they have a bad day…the answer is people die.

VP Biden is right we should be thanking those that go into public service. We don’t do it for the money, we do it because we want to help. There is no greater feeling in the world than making a difference.

CJ Sinister commented 2012-06-25 13:18:57 -0400 · Flag

It isn’t fair! I work for little pay while my boss makes only a million times more than all of his employees together. I should have to work for less so that he should make more! that way instead of making millions, he might make billions! That is the american dream, and if I were to demand to be paid more, I would be infringing on his american dream, and that would be immoral and unamerican. So I should demand less so that the corporation that i work for and those who run it can get more money. Asking for a livable wage is unamerican and unconstitutional! we should ALL work for FREE that is the only american thing to do nowadays! that way the rich will get richer. that is the american dream. Poor people don’t exist in america!!!! you are either rich, or unpatriotic! America is the best country in the universe!
U$A! U$A! U$A! U$A!

Janet Tuhey commented 2012-06-25 11:01:29 -0400 · Flag

In what sane society do we pay more to celebrities, CEOs, “news” readers, pro sports stars, and any other profession whose existance has such an insigificant impact on our lives? It makes me nauseous when anyone condemns teachers, firefighters and police officers for “making too much.” They are the ones who should be making millions. There are some things that should never be politicized.

truman commented 2012-06-25 10:13:47 -0400 · Flag

Our economic problems are not the result of the middle class salaries paid to police, fire fighters and teachers for performing their difficult jobs.

It’s the one percent who don’t want to pay their fair share, and the assholes like Tamny who defend them.

Kelstar commented 2012-06-25 10:11:43 -0400 · Flag

A 32 y/o single mom and veteran of the Denver, CO police force was gunned down during a park concert this weekend while trying to break up a fight.

She died in the line of duty before having the chance to thank Steve Forbes and his kind.

Kelstar commented 2012-06-25 10:05:53 -0400 · Flag

Unions negotiate for job security, working conditions, wages, pensions, and benefits for their members. They try get the best deal possible. Isn’t this the crux of capitalism? I don’t understand what all the fuss is about.

Brian M commented 2012-06-25 09:51:08 -0400 · Flag

Visitor, unless of course you’re talking about NYPD or FDNY, then they’re more than willing to use them for patriotic/political points.

Visitor 55 commented 2012-06-25 08:25:38 -0400 · Flag

Fire fighters should be thanking us for their jobs?? WTF!

If this doesn’t convince fire fighters and all other public workers how the arrogant rich neocon assholes in this country feel about them, I don’t know what will. Any public employee who supports neocons is ignorant and misinformed.

Occupations that serve and protect Americans should be shown more respect, (except in cases where that is abused, i.e. dirty corrupt cops like Arpaio etc.) People in those jobs obviously don’t do it for the money. Some have said it’s more like a calling. And the right-wing assholes at FoxGOPTV would sooner spit on them than show them any kind of respect.

Brian M commented 2012-06-25 07:10:43 -0400 · Flag

When a friend of mine, who works a lower-level supervisory position at a credit card company that does not require a degree, and who is raking in somewhere near $30k a year, heard how much a teacher’s starting salary was, he got super pissed off and ACTUALLY SAID “What the fuck, that’s way more than I make, that’s bullshit!” He sat without much else to say, I think because he didn’t want to piss me off, while I told him WHY teacher’s get paid that much (education requirements, the time necessary to be put in, etc.). I clarified by saying that I’M happy with what most teacher’s make starting out, but to say that they make TOO MUCH is offensive.

Yea, asshole, I’d like to see you even DEAL with 100+ kids every day, I’m not even talking about making lesson plans, communicating with parents, etc. Most people couldn’t even get a classroom of 30 kids to shut up and listen for more than five minutes, yet they have the nerve to say teachers are overpaid.

doors17 commented 2012-06-25 06:29:18 -0400 · Flag

They should be thanking us???

Watch this Steve…http://youtu.be/JlhcJBj4cno

Aria Prescott commented 2012-06-25 02:07:57 -0400 · Flag

Ungar said, Tell that to the family of a fallen police officer.â

I’ll up him one further- I dare them to go into a precinct or a house (their choice) and spout this crap. Especially one that just lost officers.

Good luck finding your teeth if you take me up on that -and word of advice? Assuming the officer that knocked them out does get suspended for it, it’s more than a fair trade-off in his mind. And everyone who saw it will make sure you hear just how little they blame them.

Joseph West commented 2012-06-25 01:50:45 -0400 · Flag

Tamny insisted he wasnât vilifying them but saying â âWait a second, â¦they get pensions that we donât get in the private sector. They get far more vacation than what we get in the private sector, they clearly get paid more, and I donât think the effort they expend matches what they get paid and what their benefits are.â

Typical right-wing attitude that’s successfully corrupted the majority of Americans’ thinking.

I wish someone had asked Tamny WHY this “we” of whom he chooses to be part of doesn’t get those pensions and vacation time. Could it be because unions (which used to FIGHT for those things for ALL workers in ALL workplaces) have become so vilified by the very people who don’t want the workers to have pensions and ample vacation time? (That question was entirely rhetorical, by the way. Only a CONservative would answer “no.”)

(Just off the record, I would actually love to get a look at Tamny’s contract and see whether he’s really part of “we” or not. For some reason, I think he probably gets more vacation time than the typical worker for whom he’s “championing” and I think he probably gets enough in his paycheck so that he can afford to create his own pension.)