Dr. Ben Carson sounded almost Palin-esque as he argued that deregulation is the answer to the income inequality resulting from his tax policy that at least triples taxes for the poor while halving them for the rich.
Carson said that he wants to talk more to the public about the economy and foreign affairs but when Fox host Chris Wallace gave him that opportunity – well, let’s just say Carson might want to be a little more careful about what he wishes for.
Wallace started with a very fair and very wonkish question:
WALLACE: You say that income inequality is a big issue. You favor raising the minimum wage but you also want to impose a flat tax of somewhere between 10% and 15% for all Americans, all taxpayers. And the allegation is, the charge is that that would be a big tax increase for low and middle-income wage earners but a big tax cut for the wealthy.
Obviously, Carson didn’t have the faintest idea about how to reconcile that discrepancy. He babbled incoherently.
CARSON: Well, first of all, what I want to do is, I want to equalize things. I want things to be fair for everybody. I don’t want to pick and choose who the winners and losers are and I think when you do things in a proportional basis, it works very well. 10% is an easy number to use because it’s easy to do the calculations but, you know, you make $10 billion, you pay a billion.
Now, I know there are a lot of people who say, "That’s a problem because the guy’s still got $9 billion left. We need to take more of his money." But you see, Chris, that’s called socialism. And I recognize that there are a lot of people here who believe in socialism, that number is increasing, but the problem with socialism is they all end up looking the same way, with a small group of elites at the top, you know, a rapidly diminishing middle class and a vastly expanded dependent class. That’s not America. We’re different than that.
…The other thing I want to mention is when you have a tax system that includes everybody, it’s very difficult for the politicians to engage in their favorite activity of raising taxes. ….It’s hard to do it on a hundred percent and you have to live within your budget.
Wallace wasn’t buying it. “We’ve had a principle in this country of a progressive tax rate… for decades,” he said. Then he displayed a graphic showing that the bottom 5th of earners pay an average federal tax rate of 2% while the top 5th pay an average of 21%. “If your flat tax is somewhere between 10 and 15%... the bottom gets hit while the top makes out,” he noted.
Instead of addressing the point, Carson turned condescending.
CARSON: OK, what we have to think about, Chris is, how do we fix the economy so that it encourages entrepreneurial risk taking and capital investment? How do we create a ladder that allows those people in the lower income brackets to move up that ladder? That’s what we need to be concentrating on, not how do we make them comfortable in that situation. That’s not what America was all about. And we can do that.
Right, Doc. Because nothing allows people in the lower income brackets to move up the economic ladder like making them pay 3-8 times more in taxes.
Wallace challenged again. “But what do you say to that person who’s making 30 or $40,000 and may be paying an effective tax rate of 5 or 10%. Basically, you’re saying, ‘You’re gonna get a tax increase.’”
Let them eat deregulation!
CARSON: I say the thing that is really impacting that person making 30 or $40,000 is all the incessant regulations that we’re coming up with. Every single regulation costs us in terms of goods and services. It increases the price of everything. And who gets hit by that the most? The people in the lower economic brackets. That’s what we need to be concentrating on. Those are the kinds of things that are driving the income gap. Opportunities we make available, we create a ladder, we create opportunities and a can-do attitude rather than the what-can-you-do-for-me attitude. That’s what made America great.
And all that was before Carson proved he didn’t know what the term “anti-Semitic” means.
Watch it below, from the August 16 Fox News Sunday, another FNS with no Democratic guests.
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Kathy Hall commented
2015-08-22 09:11:44 -0400
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Yes, thank you Joanna; I agree your thoughtful input is appreciated and so important for all of us. If we care anything about the future of our country, we must have respectful substantive dialogue. We need to overcome the deliberate attempts to demonize and separate people so that we can truly know what things we have in common, and learn from each other. I believe people have common sense and can come to the right solutions if given the opportunity. The only other requirement for this to work, if that we love our country and want a better future for our children and theirs.
Ellen commented
2015-08-22 03:13:28 -0400
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Joanna Hyatt,
Thank you for your substantive and constructive comments. It’s rare to have someone who disagrees with us do so politely and respectfully, as you have, and I greatly appreciate it. I believe you have added value to the discussion, too.
Thank you for your substantive and constructive comments. It’s rare to have someone who disagrees with us do so politely and respectfully, as you have, and I greatly appreciate it. I believe you have added value to the discussion, too.
Joanna Hyatt commented
2015-08-21 08:16:39 -0400
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I would like to have a civil discussion where we just might be able to come to a peaceable resolve on at least some issues, not that the government cares, but it is important that more us care. However, I’d need to know where you stand and why.
Every state has it’s own issues. That was my underlying point, relying on the people of their own state to find workable solutions.
Aufwiedershen, (Till we meet again)
Joanna
Every state has it’s own issues. That was my underlying point, relying on the people of their own state to find workable solutions.
Aufwiedershen, (Till we meet again)
Joanna
mlp ! commented
2015-08-20 07:29:04 -0400
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Ahh, Joanna, we differ on so many points, but I do enjoy the conversation!
I hope that you continue to post here and perhaps we can have a peaceable discussion on another topic.
I currently live in rural Illinois, incidentally, where we are having our own issues.
I hope that you continue to post here and perhaps we can have a peaceable discussion on another topic.
I currently live in rural Illinois, incidentally, where we are having our own issues.
Joanna Hyatt commented
2015-08-19 21:48:28 -0400
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mlp: Mia Culpa I should have explained what I meant I was referring to; State roads and infrastructure state tax rates.
Health Care Choice: which means elimination of Obamacare mandates. Returning to decisions between a patient and doctor of choice as well as insurance options to include interstate purchase of HC insurance, the same as life and property insurance.
Education: in setting state standards but leaving many of those decisions to elected school boards and parents as well as opting for school choice, not Common Core it’s a wormy apple leading to further deterioration of education. But, that’s another discussion.
The usual individual state business of the state not international affairs or how the military should operate.
I’d leave military decisions to field command, and the those that were tested on the battlefield. Those who are and were our best in the military to administration at the Pentagon, and who should be appointed to the Dept. of defense. The list goes on but I’m not partial to writing a thesis.
I’d eliminate the Dept of Education and the EPA and their newly created Yellow Muck River. That lunatic group has run-a-muck.
I have a number of thoughts on that but hey I’m not running for office. Been there done that and returned my salary to our town. Our forefathers believed you served for the honor and duty of the office then move on and so do I.
After the Iowa caucus and NH primary I doubt you’ll need to consider Jindal, Graham, Perry, Christi, Paul and whoever #17 is from West VA.
BTW, NH has no sales or state income tax. We do have a high property tax, and then there’s the sin tax meaning the lure some of the cheapest liquor and cigarettes in the US. However, if you want meals and lodging you’ll pay through the nose. But it’s my choice to live here and shovel the mounds of global warming during a winter that broke all records.
Our state legislators receive a salary of $100/yr and gas to and from the oldest working state house. No bennies and no governors mansion. You have a home, live in it is our belief.
So, what’s up and down with your state of the state of-—?
Health Care Choice: which means elimination of Obamacare mandates. Returning to decisions between a patient and doctor of choice as well as insurance options to include interstate purchase of HC insurance, the same as life and property insurance.
Education: in setting state standards but leaving many of those decisions to elected school boards and parents as well as opting for school choice, not Common Core it’s a wormy apple leading to further deterioration of education. But, that’s another discussion.
The usual individual state business of the state not international affairs or how the military should operate.
I’d leave military decisions to field command, and the those that were tested on the battlefield. Those who are and were our best in the military to administration at the Pentagon, and who should be appointed to the Dept. of defense. The list goes on but I’m not partial to writing a thesis.
I’d eliminate the Dept of Education and the EPA and their newly created Yellow Muck River. That lunatic group has run-a-muck.
I have a number of thoughts on that but hey I’m not running for office. Been there done that and returned my salary to our town. Our forefathers believed you served for the honor and duty of the office then move on and so do I.
After the Iowa caucus and NH primary I doubt you’ll need to consider Jindal, Graham, Perry, Christi, Paul and whoever #17 is from West VA.
BTW, NH has no sales or state income tax. We do have a high property tax, and then there’s the sin tax meaning the lure some of the cheapest liquor and cigarettes in the US. However, if you want meals and lodging you’ll pay through the nose. But it’s my choice to live here and shovel the mounds of global warming during a winter that broke all records.
Our state legislators receive a salary of $100/yr and gas to and from the oldest working state house. No bennies and no governors mansion. You have a home, live in it is our belief.
So, what’s up and down with your state of the state of
mj - the same one commented
2015-08-19 19:04:18 -0400
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@ Dennis McGeary:
“It take only a man with half a brain to understand what he’s saying.”
Apt description (of yourself.)
“I know as a lower middle class I am supposed to take all the rich mans money that I didn’t earn. Silly me to think that stealing is wrong. I know the rich stool it from me because there’s no way he could have earned it. It’s time to grow up quit leaving off of everyone else and get a clue.”
Sarah Palin — is that you?
.
“It take only a man with half a brain to understand what he’s saying.”
Apt description (of yourself.)
“I know as a lower middle class I am supposed to take all the rich mans money that I didn’t earn. Silly me to think that stealing is wrong. I know the rich stool it from me because there’s no way he could have earned it. It’s time to grow up quit leaving off of everyone else and get a clue.”
Sarah Palin — is that you?
.
mlp ! commented
2015-08-19 18:48:41 -0400
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@ Joanna Hyatt
I’ll admit…you had piqued my interest (no pun intended) right up until your idea of making taxes the responsibility of the states. Check this out:
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/?gclid=COjU9MGbtscCFQiTaQodvW4Gnw
There might be 1 or 2 items there that could be shuffled down to the state level without causing too much harm, but do you really want the likes of Bobby Jindal & Rick Scott deciding what their fair share of the national defense liability should be? And determining and deciding International Affairs?
I’ll admit…you had piqued my interest (no pun intended) right up until your idea of making taxes the responsibility of the states. Check this out:
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/?gclid=COjU9MGbtscCFQiTaQodvW4Gnw
There might be 1 or 2 items there that could be shuffled down to the state level without causing too much harm, but do you really want the likes of Bobby Jindal & Rick Scott deciding what their fair share of the national defense liability should be? And determining and deciding International Affairs?
Joanna Hyatt commented
2015-08-19 12:45:13 -0400
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mlp; I’ve seen the Fair Tax proposal it’s not a Flat Tax perse’ but I disagree with both. Do we need a simpler code , Absolutely.
Let the states deal with their own tax system, their legislature and voters can protest or approve as they see fit.
As for the Federal tax system I’d propose a graduated tax with no loopholes or exemptions.
A 1% tax on those working poor that are below the poverty line as I believe everyone should have skin in the game.
Above poverty to 35,000 a 3% tax
$35,001 to $45,000 5%
$45,001 to $65,000 8%
$65,001 to $95,000 12%
$95,001 to $140,000 16%
$140,001 to $200,000 20%
$200,001 to $250,000 24%
Above $250,000+ 30%
It’s fair IMO as; It would reduce considerably the role, cost and waste of the IRS. Intrusive Repugnant System. Simplifying the rules and math contortions many face.
As for the Business tax again no loop holes
Small business tax up to 250 employees 12%
Larger business 251 up to 500 employees 14 %
Large corporations 500+ employees 17%
An import fee of 25% on all goods and services, creating a mandate that we use our oil and stop dependency on foreign sources for energy.
If you prefer come up with your own plan or substitute the percentages.
AS I stated previously; Cut the waste in all government agencies and put a cap on them, including the bennies and perks of government employees right up to and including the president.
Let the states deal with their own tax system, their legislature and voters can protest or approve as they see fit.
As for the Federal tax system I’d propose a graduated tax with no loopholes or exemptions.
A 1% tax on those working poor that are below the poverty line as I believe everyone should have skin in the game.
Above poverty to 35,000 a 3% tax
$35,001 to $45,000 5%
$45,001 to $65,000 8%
$65,001 to $95,000 12%
$95,001 to $140,000 16%
$140,001 to $200,000 20%
$200,001 to $250,000 24%
Above $250,000+ 30%
It’s fair IMO as; It would reduce considerably the role, cost and waste of the IRS. Intrusive Repugnant System. Simplifying the rules and math contortions many face.
As for the Business tax again no loop holes
Small business tax up to 250 employees 12%
Larger business 251 up to 500 employees 14 %
Large corporations 500+ employees 17%
An import fee of 25% on all goods and services, creating a mandate that we use our oil and stop dependency on foreign sources for energy.
If you prefer come up with your own plan or substitute the percentages.
AS I stated previously; Cut the waste in all government agencies and put a cap on them, including the bennies and perks of government employees right up to and including the president.
Lakeview Greg commented
2015-08-18 17:26:38 -0400
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Well, gotta give the Carson supporters this, they certainly are very well-spoken in comparison to your average Trump supporter. Just as idiotic, but well-spoken.
Erich Pomfret commented
2015-08-18 17:03:46 -0400
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Oh my word. There are people, possibly bright, and mostly articulate, who actually support Ben Carson, or at least one of his unoriginal positions. And one of them prefers him to “loony toons, bonkers Bernie.” Wow.
Southern Sam commented
2015-08-18 13:00:17 -0400
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Of course the Ben Carson tax plan is fair. 10-15% for everyone. What’s fairer than that? What could possibly be fairer than that? Oh wait. Lets hate all stupid, greedy, insane, psychopathic, criminal, rich people and be REALLY fair. 99.99% tax for them, right? And well, 0% for us. That’s what loony toons, bonkers Bernie really wants to say. Thank goodness for the sanity and education of Ben Carson.
diana houston commented
2015-08-18 10:13:45 -0400
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Does this writer realize that the very rich pay very little in taxes….proportionate to their income? Taking advantage of write-offs and loopholes enables the wealthy to pay less than what the current tax code requires. With a flat tax ….whatever the rate….the write-offs and loopholes will disappear and the rich will then pay (as Obama says) “their fair share”.
Joanna Hyatt commented
2015-08-18 09:21:13 -0400
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mlp !: Could you state your source for the 23% you offer from experts, who are they? I have read that 14.5% is more in the area that would sustain the government; IF they stopped wasting taxpayer dollars on unnecessary and failed programs along with eliminating the duplication of agencies as well as eliminating ineffective and inept agencies. Instead allow the states to run their own programs under what we know as States Rights. Given each state knows better what would be necessary and advantageous to it’s own residents. You can’t honestly compare the needs of MT to those of CA.
If you listened to what Dr. Carson actually said the 10% he used is only to demonstrate more easily how the flat tax would work. That said, We do need to close all the loop holes, shut the faucet on waste, and reduce the business tax and cumbersome regulations. The US has the highest business tax in the world and this Global Warming/ Climate change drivel is but one more gigantic move to control how we live our lives at an even grater expense to all of us. The government can’t run a flush toilet without creating and overflow of waste in allowing them one more invasion based on junk science developed to obtain more Control by inept intervention and just another bogus manipulation by a cartel of malevolent malingerers.
It is impossible for any candidate to state all the details in a short interview or sound bite on every question asked but they could provide it on their website for those who care enough to be an informed voter and Read. Dr. Carson has done that, but it is up to the voter to avail themselves of this and make an informed decision. Given there is more than a baseball team of candidates it is a long process to read their list of complete proposals should they actually have one.
If you listened to what Dr. Carson actually said the 10% he used is only to demonstrate more easily how the flat tax would work. That said, We do need to close all the loop holes, shut the faucet on waste, and reduce the business tax and cumbersome regulations. The US has the highest business tax in the world and this Global Warming/ Climate change drivel is but one more gigantic move to control how we live our lives at an even grater expense to all of us. The government can’t run a flush toilet without creating and overflow of waste in allowing them one more invasion based on junk science developed to obtain more Control by inept intervention and just another bogus manipulation by a cartel of malevolent malingerers.
It is impossible for any candidate to state all the details in a short interview or sound bite on every question asked but they could provide it on their website for those who care enough to be an informed voter and Read. Dr. Carson has done that, but it is up to the voter to avail themselves of this and make an informed decision. Given there is more than a baseball team of candidates it is a long process to read their list of complete proposals should they actually have one.
mlp ! commented
2015-08-18 08:22:52 -0400
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Nice to see all the members of the Carson fan club here reveling in the possibility of a “10% Fair Tax” for everyone!
The problem is that most experts agree that the MINIMUM rate that would be required of the Fair Tax would be 23% for the government to accrue the same income as it currently does.
Okay, but at least EVERYONE will be paying that rate and it will be FAIR, right?
Uh, not really. Proponents of the Fair Tax (and Ben Carson) should become familiar with the ‘Prebate’ feature which has been included in the Fair Tax proposal. The prebate has been called “the largest entitlement program in American history”, and has been estimated to be a liability as high $600 Billion dollars a year. Imagine the government required to administer that!
But, hey….go for it. My taxes will go down, so it has to be a good thing, right?
The problem is that most experts agree that the MINIMUM rate that would be required of the Fair Tax would be 23% for the government to accrue the same income as it currently does.
Okay, but at least EVERYONE will be paying that rate and it will be FAIR, right?
Uh, not really. Proponents of the Fair Tax (and Ben Carson) should become familiar with the ‘Prebate’ feature which has been included in the Fair Tax proposal. The prebate has been called “the largest entitlement program in American history”, and has been estimated to be a liability as high $600 Billion dollars a year. Imagine the government required to administer that!
But, hey….go for it. My taxes will go down, so it has to be a good thing, right?
Jane S commented
2015-08-18 02:10:41 -0400
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Holy smokes, and we thought Trump was massively ignorant. Carson is not a stupid man, but he is incredibly naive. He’s been taken to the cleaners intellectually by right-wing propaganda that sounds just great if you don’t actually examine its effects.
dennis crane commented
2015-08-17 23:43:46 -0400
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Eyes on fox in a comment 8 hours ago said our current economy is anything but socialist’. All other issues aside: Socialism is that form of government where the government controls the means of production. The Oxford Dictionary and most other dictionaries seem pretty clear on that.I’ll leave it to the reader to determine whether our economy is anything but socialist. Maybe Eyes on doesn’t see the need for dictionaries when he can just say what he wants. Reminds me of the guy who can’t be out of money because he still has checks. As Reagan said " The Democrat says I’ll see it when I believe it."
Michael Lewinski commented
2015-08-17 23:11:40 -0400
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This author is a prime representative of the what-can-you-do-for-me attitude that is destroying our country. She is one of the Socialist he had in mind. She believes that the wealth must be taken from the wealthy and spread to the middle class and the poor through progressive taxes. She doesn’t believe she should have to pay for the Progressive, big government she wants.
Kathy Hall commented
2015-08-17 23:10:16 -0400
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Dr. Carson answered Chris Wallace’s question, whether you can see the logic or not. A Flat Tax with a 10% tax for every income bracket would keep government from picking winners and losers, and selling special treatment to some. It would also encourage billions to return to our shores in the way of jobs and investment. Dr. Carson’s answer was " What we have to think about Chris is how do we fix the economy so it encourages entrepreneurial risk taking and capital investment. How do we create a ladder that allows those people in the lower income brackets to move up the ladder. That’s what we need to be concentrating on." Doing the same with taxes that chases away investment and jobs, does not help the poor. It maintains and increases poverty. So paying a little more in taxes up front is a small price to pay for a vibrant economy that allows you to move out of poverty. Unnecessary regulation also hurts the poor, as he explained. Dr. Carson knows what he is talking about.
dennis crane commented
2015-08-17 22:53:13 -0400
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Chris’ assumption is wrong on two counts.
1. it assumes a flat tax would cost poor people. That is only true if a stronger economy and better wages made no difference to the poor. It is precisely the poor who are affected most by our current weak economy and crony capitalism. 2. He assumes the rich would pay less. This neglects the fact that most wealthy people pay less than the flat tax would require. The tax dodge that benefits the rich would be eliminated by a flat tax.
Besides the errors in Mr. Wallace’s assumptions there is also the matter of the 14th Amendment. The 14th, guarantees equality under the law. It doesn’t exempt the poor who are allowed to pay nothing. It also doesn’t allow the law to punish the wealthy and force them to [pay more. The 14th Amendment is the citizens assurance of fair treatment. Destroying its
guarantees hurts the weak and the poor most of all.
These matters are understood by Doctor Carson. Mr. Wallace’s venue is not a good place to explain these basic facts of American life.
1. it assumes a flat tax would cost poor people. That is only true if a stronger economy and better wages made no difference to the poor. It is precisely the poor who are affected most by our current weak economy and crony capitalism. 2. He assumes the rich would pay less. This neglects the fact that most wealthy people pay less than the flat tax would require. The tax dodge that benefits the rich would be eliminated by a flat tax.
Besides the errors in Mr. Wallace’s assumptions there is also the matter of the 14th Amendment. The 14th, guarantees equality under the law. It doesn’t exempt the poor who are allowed to pay nothing. It also doesn’t allow the law to punish the wealthy and force them to [pay more. The 14th Amendment is the citizens assurance of fair treatment. Destroying its
guarantees hurts the weak and the poor most of all.
These matters are understood by Doctor Carson. Mr. Wallace’s venue is not a good place to explain these basic facts of American life.
Steve St John commented
2015-08-17 22:49:57 -0400
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“10% is an easy number to use because it’s easy to do the calculations…….”
Gotta keep it simple for the Fox audience.
Gotta keep it simple for the Fox audience.
Eyes On Fox commented
2015-08-17 15:58:48 -0400
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Astonishing Dr. Carson was a brain surgeon because I’ve seen him interviewed several times including an in-depth “Charlie Rose” one where Mr. Hunt tried to prop him up and he still struggled mightily at coherence.
It’s unclear to me if Dr. Carson is awkwardly masking his true intent or truly a parrot dolt lost on the implications of his Tea Party vomit. I suspect the latter. Regardless, his is the ideology often pimped on Fox News the poor are lazy leaches who need to be coaxed into the moral cleansing of capitalism. The wealthy worshipped by the Foxies are our savior job creators unfairly punished for being economic heroes.
Dr. Carson’s “not how do we make them [the poor] more comfortable” says it all. Dramatically raising their taxes is bitter but necessary medicine to coax these lazy good-for-nothings into productive pursuits since all Fox News fanboys know anybody can sign up for generous welfare benefits which go on forever. Welfare is such a rich gravy train Fox News spin makes their mostly fixed income retired fan base absolutely jealous their Social Security check isn’t so fat. 😉
Zap Pow nails it in a previous comment. Dr. Carson misses the irony our current economy (which is anything but Socialist) has created massive and increasing income disparity between the wealthy and all the rest of us, poor and middle-class.
It’s unclear to me if Dr. Carson is awkwardly masking his true intent or truly a parrot dolt lost on the implications of his Tea Party vomit. I suspect the latter. Regardless, his is the ideology often pimped on Fox News the poor are lazy leaches who need to be coaxed into the moral cleansing of capitalism. The wealthy worshipped by the Foxies are our savior job creators unfairly punished for being economic heroes.
Dr. Carson’s “not how do we make them [the poor] more comfortable” says it all. Dramatically raising their taxes is bitter but necessary medicine to coax these lazy good-for-nothings into productive pursuits since all Fox News fanboys know anybody can sign up for generous welfare benefits which go on forever. Welfare is such a rich gravy train Fox News spin makes their mostly fixed income retired fan base absolutely jealous their Social Security check isn’t so fat. 😉
Zap Pow nails it in a previous comment. Dr. Carson misses the irony our current economy (which is anything but Socialist) has created massive and increasing income disparity between the wealthy and all the rest of us, poor and middle-class.
Zap Pow commented
2015-08-17 15:05:59 -0400
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<blockquote>the problem with socialism is they all end up looking the same way, with a small group of elites at the top, you know, a rapidly diminishing middle class and a vastly expanded dependent class.</blockquote>
The US has been a socialist country all that time and I didn’t know !
The US has been a socialist country all that time and I didn’t know !
Lakeview Greg commented
2015-08-17 14:43:55 -0400
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Carson’s brain is too full of medical knowledge to absorb anything else, hence his nonsensical answers to any questions not medical in origin.
Dennis Mchappy commented
2015-08-17 14:08:06 -0400
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It take only a man with half a brain to understand what he’s saying. I know as a lower middle class I am supposed to take all the rich mans money that I didn’t earn. Silly me to think that stealing is wrong. I know the rich stool it from me because there’s no way he could have earned it. It’s time to grow up quit leaving off of everyone else and get a clue.
Erich Pomfret commented
2015-08-17 14:04:51 -0400
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By his definition, I’m anti-Semitic, despite my Jewish mother. For that matter, a significant part of Israeli Jews are as well. But, my taxes won’t go up, so it’s all good.
john howard commented
2015-08-17 13:50:01 -0400
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WOW!!! please MR. Carson do the math,remember Math is a sicence it is a proven fact.
