Mild-Mannered Portland Attorney Beats O'Reilly at His Own Game
Reported by Marie Therese - October 25, 2005
On last night's Factor {[10-24-05] Bill O'Reilly repeated his lament about the terrible threat to morals that exists in Oregon, now that their Supreme Court has ruled that live sex shows are an expression of free speech.
He's been on his high-horse for the past week, indignant about the Oregon decision. He's spluttered over and over again that, thanks to this ruling, the floodgates of sin and perversion will open in Portland as Oregonians become free to copulate on their front lawns whenever they want to and the authorities will be unable to stop them.
He scheduled two guests to discuss this topic: Claude Dacorsi, general manager of the Safari Club in Portland and Charles Hinkle, a First Amendment attorney.
Mr. Dacorsi indicated that he himself intends to stick to dancers only, responding that "it's good for business to do what we're doing right now. We don't need to go too far and upset the community. We want to be a good neighbor, still."
O'Reilly then turned his attention to attorney Charles Hinkle, clearly assuming that he could win one for virtue by grinding the lawyer into dust. Fortunately for the truth, O'Reilly's plans were sabotaged by Mr. Hinkle.
I've written up a transcript of this part of the interview because it would be almost impossible to paraphrase the skilled way in which O'Reilly was skewered by this oh-so-quiet, seemingly mild-mannered legal beagle.
O'REILLY: Alright, counselor. This good for the state of Oregon, sir?
HINKLE: Well, Bill, you exaggerate and misstate the holding of the case. Maybe you didn't read to the end. This guy is in jail. Mr. [indecipherable] ....
O'REILLY: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I don't care about that.
HINKLE: ... is in prison.
O'REILLY: Look. Counselor. I don't care about the guy in Roseburg,
(Hinkle laughs) And I didn't [might have said "did" - hard to tell from the tape] read the decision and it doesn't matter to me if he's in jail or not. He's in jail for prostitution
HINKLE: Don't you understand that his business was shut down?
O'REILLY: Yeah, but what I want to do ...
HNKLE: His business was shut down, Bill.
O'REILLY: What I want to do is discuss, today, alright, the overarch of the Supreme Court's ruling that does allow Mr. Dacorsi, or anyone else, alright, to have these kinds of displays. Now, if somebody's doin' prostitution they're gonna be put ...
HINKLE: No, Bill, but you're wrong about that.
O'REILLY: ... in jail.
HINKLE: You're wrong about that. This guy was convicted of promoting prostitution. Under Oregon law, right now, after this decision, if you pay two performers to have sex together in front of an audience, you go to jail for promoting prostitution.
O'REILLY: OK, but you can get around that ...
HINKLE: So the only thing that is legal ...
O'REILLY: ...by having the customers give them tips and things like that. You know, you know the game. Look, I don't want to do this dance, counselor. (annoyed) Is the Supreme Court ruling, sir, good for the state of Oregon?
HINKLE: What dance? These guys are in jail. Live sex shows between paid performers after this ...
O'REILLY (annoyed): OK, let's say they're volunteers.
HINKLE: ... are not going to be any more common.
O'REILLY: OK, let's say they're volunteers, sir.
HINKLE: OK. (nods head) Right. They're volunteers.
O'REILLY (louder): Is the ruling from the Supreme Court good for the state of Oregon?
HINKLE: You bet it is. It is a vigorous reaffirmation of the free speech principles that Oregon voters have voted on three times in the last eleven years.
O'REILLY: OK. So you think it's good?
HINKLE: And each [indecipherable] ...
O'REILLY: It's a freedom of expression issue for you. Is that correct?
HINKLE: Oregon voters say so. Three times in the last eleven years they have said they don't want restrictions on sexual activity in free speech.
O'REILLY: OK. Why can't you have sex, then - are you married, sir? Counselor?
HINKLE (annoyed): What business is that of yours?
O'REILLY: OK. Why can't anyone who's married - or even unmarried - have sex on their front lawn?
HINKLE: Oh, because time, place, and manner regulations have always been enforced in this country.
O'REILLY: OK, so time, place.
HINKLE: You can have Broadway shows with naked â with naked men and women - and they do all the time. You can have "Hair." You can have [indecipherable].
O'REILLY: OK, so you do believe in time, place.
HINKLE: You can't do that.
O'REILLY: You do believe in time, place, and manner restrictions? OK.
HINKLE: Absolutely. You can't sing the "Star Spangled Banner" at 3:00 AM outside the hospital ...
O'REILLY: No, you're disturbing the peace.
HINKLE: ... you know.
O'REILLY: Now, in Portland ...
HINKLE: That's right.
O'REILLY: ... and I lived there, so I know this, many of the clubs, like Mr. Dacorsi, are in proximity to residences, OK? Because Portland's a tiny town, I mean as far as the downtown area is concerned. There are high rises. There are people living in lofts - you know that - around the proximity of these clubs. You feel that's not time, place and manner, sir?
HINKLE: The Oregon - that was one of the provisions that was on the Oregon ballot. In 2000, the proposition was put to the people. Shall we allow zoning ordinances to keep adult businesses away from schools, away from churches and whatever. Oregon voters resoundedly rejected that, because they know that despite what people like you say, there has been, in fact, no effect on property values, no increase in crime, no invasion of other people's privacy.
O'REILLY (overtalks last 5 words): Then, why here in New York did they knock down all of these sex places and property values went through the roof? I mean, right around the corner from where I'm sitting now, Giuliani knocked 'em all down and property values, you know, quadrupled in a month. (annoyed) So, look, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
HINKLE: There are a million reasons why property values in Times Square went up.
O'REILLY: But that's just a disagreement between you and I. OK, I think it's an intrusion on the people of Oregon, particularly in Portland. I think if you put a referendum tomorrow: "Do you want live sex shows in this state?," it will be resoundingly defeated. And also ...
HINKLE: Well, you're wrong.
O'REILLY: And also, I think it's time, place, and manner. I don't think the good folks - I think the good folks of Oregon were bamboozled and now it's coming home to roost. But I'll give you the last word.
HINKLE: Three time, three times they have upheld it and the law here is no different in California. You have the live sex shows down there. 2001, the California Court of Appeals Supreme Court said that's fine, so the law in Oregon is no different than it is in California.
O'REILLY: That's not what we understand, but we will look into it. All right, gentlemen, thanks very much, we appreciate it.
COMMENT
The topic here is whether or not the state of Oregon has the right to decide for itself what constitutes free speech or must they listen to and adopt conservative beliefs.
If the comments get out of hand (lewd. lascivious, etc.) I will close this post to comment. Remember we know now that we have teenagers reading News Hounds. Treat them with the same respect you would your own children, please.
Marie Therese
