Kevin Koster commented on Fox's Todd Starnes Goes On A Racial Rant Over Obama's Remarks About Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman
2013-07-20 13:46:11 -0400
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The simple fact is that the President made some thoughtful and heartfelt observations about the case, to speak to the millions of people in this country who have concerns about the issues it raises. The President did address black-on-black violence during his comments, and it was refreshing to hear him speak simply and frankly to these matters.
Of course, the Fox News “Line of the Day” afterward was to immediately attack him. Now, if he had said nothing, the Fox News Line would have been to attack him for NOT saying anything. (“Where’s Obama? Why doesn’t he act like a leader?”) It’s nice to know that Fox News is at least consistent in this regard.
Of course, the Fox News “Line of the Day” afterward was to immediately attack him. Now, if he had said nothing, the Fox News Line would have been to attack him for NOT saying anything. (“Where’s Obama? Why doesn’t he act like a leader?”) It’s nice to know that Fox News is at least consistent in this regard.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox Regular Accuses Obama Of Inciting Violence At Trayvon Martin Protests
2013-07-20 13:47:42 -0400
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By the way, President Obama DID address black-on-black crime in his statements. He included that as a serious issue that needs to be faced and dealt with. But acknowledging that he did so doesn’t seem to fit within the Fox News perspective.
Kevin Koster commented on Van Susteren To Trayvon Martin Friend: Get Over It
2013-07-19 17:51:05 -0400
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My post is still up, although I suppose it’s possible they could delete it. I’ve had two of the regulars there respond with angry posts that either ignored my points or acted as though the facts were the reverse of reality. I’ve addressed both of those, and we’ll see what happens.
I’m frankly a bit concerned that these guys are openly musing about violent riots as though such a thing is a foregone conclusion, even after we’re a week out from the verdict and nothing of the sort has been seen. That whole perspective is the worst kind of smearing I kind think of, to be frank.
I’m frankly a bit concerned that these guys are openly musing about violent riots as though such a thing is a foregone conclusion, even after we’re a week out from the verdict and nothing of the sort has been seen. That whole perspective is the worst kind of smearing I kind think of, to be frank.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox News To African Americans: Blame Yourselves, Not George Zimmerman, For Trayvon Martin’s Death
2013-07-18 21:34:59 -0400
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I agree with what Ellen has posted here, and I’ll amplify it.
The right wing narrative on this case from the beginning has been to try to turn it back on itself. The basics of the story, of course, don’t lend themselves easily to the effort: 17 year old black high school student is profiled while walking home from the store, unarmed and committing no crime, and in the ensuing confrontation with an enthusiastic Neighborhood Watch volunteer, winds up shot to death. So how does Fox News and the right wing media handle such an explosive matter?
First, they attempt to dismiss the entire story out of hand. “There’s nothing to see here. What about (fill in various typical and distracting crime blotter stories) rather than this story? Why doesn’t everyone look at (fill in typical outrageous shooting story from crime blotters)? Why aren’t we talking about black on black crime?” Now, the attempt to do this is outrageous and offensive in the first place anyway. This story is noteworthy because it’s an example of an unarmed 17 year old, profiled based on his race and clothing, who wound up dead because a Neighborhood Watch volunteer assumed he must be up to no good. Sorry, but that’s an explosive story, and it’s not the same thing at all as a typical case of a drug dealer being shot, or a robber shooting someone while committing their crime. Newspapers are filled with the latter kinds of stories every day. A story like this becomes a national headline because it’s emblematic. It crystallizes problems we know exist in the society (racial profiling, lax gun permitting) and gives them a face and a name.
Having failed to dismiss the story in general, the right wing press then went to the next level – they attacked the victim. Trayvon Martin went from being portrayed as an unarmed teen to being played on the right as an uppity punk and a vicious street thug who deserved to be shot to death. Commenters on Fox News said at various points, “The person responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death is Trayvon Martin”. Relying solely on George Zimmerman’s version of events, the right wing painted a picture of Martin as a sinister figure, attacking gentle George Zimmerman without warning and attempting to viciously kill him before the good man was forced to defend himself with his handgun. Adding to the fun was citations of Trayvon Martin’s spotty school record and selected quotations from his texts and social media entries, all intended to paint him as gangster or a drug dealer or just an all-around thug who everyone could imagine as a potentially fatal menace to Zimmerman. (Interesting to note that the right wing media went out of their way to dismiss the various accounts of Zimmerman’s own spotty past and the nastier portions of his social media entries, but no matter…)
With that approach in hand, the right wing media proceeded to the trial with an attitude of “Why is this case even being brought? It’s obvious that Zimmerman was defending himself! He was right to shoot the thug!” This attitude permeated the Fox News coverage from even before jury selection began.
And we should note about the jury: the comments by jurors since the verdict have at least established one major factor in how the matter was decided. Race really was a factor for this jury. As it turns out, the defense team did a much better job with their work on jury selection than the prosecution did. The prosecution clearly didn’t want to play up the racial angle of the case – their thought on the jury was that if they had an all-female panel, and if they had several mothers in there, they would get the attention of people who would react badly if their own child was killed while walking home from the store. But the prosecution didn’t factor in that if they had a nearly all-white jury with not a single black member, you could have a situation where the jury couldn’t relate to the victim of the crime. As the interviewed juror revealed, she couldn’t understand Rachel Jenteal and just assumed that black people in general just use phrases like “creepy ass cracka” as normal speech. This would be humorous if we weren’t discussing a murder case. The defense team, of course, knew that if they had a nearly all-white jury with a conservative lean to their thinking, there would be a considerable barrier to the prosecution making their case. And what happened here? The seated jury was unable to understand or relate to key witnesses, leaving them in a place where they wound up with more doubt than certainty. And that’s how they wound up unable to agree on manslaughter, even after multiple jurors indicated they wanted to rule that way.
To add insult to the injury of the coverage, we then were treated to the spectacle of “They’re gonna riot!!”, which was a shorthand for saying that “Black people can’t handle a verdict they don’t like, and they’re gonna burn your city down!” There were two pieces to this – part of it was the snide condescension that the case would immediately lead to acquittal after five minutes in the jury chamber. And to this was added the insult that black communities would immediately lose their minds after that happened. Frankly, this was the lowest point in the coverage for me. And what happened? The jury struggled with their instructions for two days, before finally turning in a verdict that they admitted they didn’t think they had much choice about based on their instructions. Further, the jurors admitted, again, that they didn’t understand and couldn’t relate to key witnesses.
But what happened next? Martin’s parents, community leaders and the President called for calm reflection and positive work after the verdict. And overwhelmingly around the country, that’s exactly what happened. People gathered peacefully (albeit unhappily) and expressed their disagreement with this result. Undaunted, the right wing media then seized on the tiny number of isolated situations where lawbreakers took advantage of the protests to try to cause trouble. I would consider this to be the final poke in the eye for the matter. Having been denied the visuals of mass rioting and cities on fire, the right wing frantically grasped at any little embers they could to prove their foregone conclusion.
It’s going to be important to remember what happened here for the future. In years to come, Bill O’Reilly and the rest will be telling a very different narrative about this matter – in the same way that they tell different stories about O.J. or about Ramos & Compean. It’s important that someone remember the truth. And I would argue it’s the very reason that a site like this one needs to exist.
The right wing narrative on this case from the beginning has been to try to turn it back on itself. The basics of the story, of course, don’t lend themselves easily to the effort: 17 year old black high school student is profiled while walking home from the store, unarmed and committing no crime, and in the ensuing confrontation with an enthusiastic Neighborhood Watch volunteer, winds up shot to death. So how does Fox News and the right wing media handle such an explosive matter?
First, they attempt to dismiss the entire story out of hand. “There’s nothing to see here. What about (fill in various typical and distracting crime blotter stories) rather than this story? Why doesn’t everyone look at (fill in typical outrageous shooting story from crime blotters)? Why aren’t we talking about black on black crime?” Now, the attempt to do this is outrageous and offensive in the first place anyway. This story is noteworthy because it’s an example of an unarmed 17 year old, profiled based on his race and clothing, who wound up dead because a Neighborhood Watch volunteer assumed he must be up to no good. Sorry, but that’s an explosive story, and it’s not the same thing at all as a typical case of a drug dealer being shot, or a robber shooting someone while committing their crime. Newspapers are filled with the latter kinds of stories every day. A story like this becomes a national headline because it’s emblematic. It crystallizes problems we know exist in the society (racial profiling, lax gun permitting) and gives them a face and a name.
Having failed to dismiss the story in general, the right wing press then went to the next level – they attacked the victim. Trayvon Martin went from being portrayed as an unarmed teen to being played on the right as an uppity punk and a vicious street thug who deserved to be shot to death. Commenters on Fox News said at various points, “The person responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death is Trayvon Martin”. Relying solely on George Zimmerman’s version of events, the right wing painted a picture of Martin as a sinister figure, attacking gentle George Zimmerman without warning and attempting to viciously kill him before the good man was forced to defend himself with his handgun. Adding to the fun was citations of Trayvon Martin’s spotty school record and selected quotations from his texts and social media entries, all intended to paint him as gangster or a drug dealer or just an all-around thug who everyone could imagine as a potentially fatal menace to Zimmerman. (Interesting to note that the right wing media went out of their way to dismiss the various accounts of Zimmerman’s own spotty past and the nastier portions of his social media entries, but no matter…)
With that approach in hand, the right wing media proceeded to the trial with an attitude of “Why is this case even being brought? It’s obvious that Zimmerman was defending himself! He was right to shoot the thug!” This attitude permeated the Fox News coverage from even before jury selection began.
And we should note about the jury: the comments by jurors since the verdict have at least established one major factor in how the matter was decided. Race really was a factor for this jury. As it turns out, the defense team did a much better job with their work on jury selection than the prosecution did. The prosecution clearly didn’t want to play up the racial angle of the case – their thought on the jury was that if they had an all-female panel, and if they had several mothers in there, they would get the attention of people who would react badly if their own child was killed while walking home from the store. But the prosecution didn’t factor in that if they had a nearly all-white jury with not a single black member, you could have a situation where the jury couldn’t relate to the victim of the crime. As the interviewed juror revealed, she couldn’t understand Rachel Jenteal and just assumed that black people in general just use phrases like “creepy ass cracka” as normal speech. This would be humorous if we weren’t discussing a murder case. The defense team, of course, knew that if they had a nearly all-white jury with a conservative lean to their thinking, there would be a considerable barrier to the prosecution making their case. And what happened here? The seated jury was unable to understand or relate to key witnesses, leaving them in a place where they wound up with more doubt than certainty. And that’s how they wound up unable to agree on manslaughter, even after multiple jurors indicated they wanted to rule that way.
To add insult to the injury of the coverage, we then were treated to the spectacle of “They’re gonna riot!!”, which was a shorthand for saying that “Black people can’t handle a verdict they don’t like, and they’re gonna burn your city down!” There were two pieces to this – part of it was the snide condescension that the case would immediately lead to acquittal after five minutes in the jury chamber. And to this was added the insult that black communities would immediately lose their minds after that happened. Frankly, this was the lowest point in the coverage for me. And what happened? The jury struggled with their instructions for two days, before finally turning in a verdict that they admitted they didn’t think they had much choice about based on their instructions. Further, the jurors admitted, again, that they didn’t understand and couldn’t relate to key witnesses.
But what happened next? Martin’s parents, community leaders and the President called for calm reflection and positive work after the verdict. And overwhelmingly around the country, that’s exactly what happened. People gathered peacefully (albeit unhappily) and expressed their disagreement with this result. Undaunted, the right wing media then seized on the tiny number of isolated situations where lawbreakers took advantage of the protests to try to cause trouble. I would consider this to be the final poke in the eye for the matter. Having been denied the visuals of mass rioting and cities on fire, the right wing frantically grasped at any little embers they could to prove their foregone conclusion.
It’s going to be important to remember what happened here for the future. In years to come, Bill O’Reilly and the rest will be telling a very different narrative about this matter – in the same way that they tell different stories about O.J. or about Ramos & Compean. It’s important that someone remember the truth. And I would argue it’s the very reason that a site like this one needs to exist.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox News Helps Promote George Zimmerman’s Latest Fundraiser: His Lawsuit Against NBC
2013-07-19 04:55:03 -0400
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Ellen’s point is correct. And the only thing that would stop the Martin family from taking action is Zimmerman’s claim of being penniless. If that is shown to be false and Zimmerman is flaunting how he can profit from the death of their son, you can bet that the Martin family will immediately take action to stop him in his tracks.
Kevin Koster commented on Todd Starnes Tweets Focus On Violent Zimmerman Verdict Protests - But Obama Is "Dividing America" Really?
2013-07-17 14:33:37 -0400
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As a Los Angeles resident, I can attest to the idiocy of what Starnes and right wing media outlets are trying to pull here.
Their meme is “Massive riots! Look at all this lawbreaking! Toldya!” Except that this isn’t what’ happening. Not by a long shot. Over the past several days, there have literally been hundreds of protests around the country by people unhappy about the outcome of the Zimmerman trial. I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers were up to at least 500 protests by now, given that we have 50 states, and in just about all of them, there have been multiple gatherings for people to speak out. In states like California and New York, there have been many more than in other states, obviously. And of that number of protests and gatherings, we know of a small handful where some people have acted badly – and in each case, the police have been able to quickly deal with the problem. I believe what we’re seeing in several of those cases is that there are always some people who want to take advantage of a situation to go out and break the law. We see this when a soccer team wins or loses the championship. We’ve seen this in Los Angeles when the Lakers won their first championship in 2000. It’s a phenomena that isn’t about race – it’s just about some people, frankly, being jerks and/or criminals.
Los Angeles has been almost completely peaceful, in spite of right wing attempts to spin up paranoia about wild black people rioting. Now, when the Rodney King verdict happened in 1992, THAT was a riot. That was a situation where part of the city was literally on fire. That was a time when it really wasn’t safe to go outside in parts of Los Angeles and there was a very real sense of danger. And that’s the fear that these outlets are trying to drum up today. Except that we’re not seeing riots or anything like that today.
Given that they don’t have the huge riots they predicted, right wing AM station KFI in Los Angeles has now taken the approach that the protests are distracting “hundreds of police officers from doing their jobs”. They’ve tried to blow up any incident of a protest where someone gets arrested and then pair it with a robbery or a murder somewhere else in the city. The silliest notion of this came this morning, when they tried to say that some burglars in Hollywood were supposedly taking advantage of the police not being present. Which is total nonsense. We have a massive police force in Los Angeles, and there’s plenty of police on duty in Hollywood. There certainly have been some cutbacks in recent years, but not because some people are protesting in different areas. The cutbacks were due to California and Los Angeles having budgetary problems – hence layoffs of teachers, and furloughs of various state and local government employees. If there’s a reason we haven’t expanded our police presence further, it’s budgetary. On any given day in Los Angeles, there are ALWAYS protests happening somewhere over something. There are a few more lately due to this trial, but nothing that would cause everyone to suddenly lose their focus. So the entire premise of this right wing meme is false from the beginning.
I would further add that this notion that President Obama is being divisive is ridiculous on its face. The President expressed sympathy for grieving parents last year in a tasteful and humane manner. After the verdict was announced, the President clearly stated that people should calmly reflect on what had happened and work to try to limit gun violence in the future. How in the world is such a statement divisive? I would argue that the President has been trying to bring the country together, and that various media outlets like KFI and Fox News are the ones trying to divide it. And sneers like the ones I’m hearing on the radio or on Fox News feel like a much more divisive force than a President asking for calm reflection.
Their meme is “Massive riots! Look at all this lawbreaking! Toldya!” Except that this isn’t what’ happening. Not by a long shot. Over the past several days, there have literally been hundreds of protests around the country by people unhappy about the outcome of the Zimmerman trial. I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers were up to at least 500 protests by now, given that we have 50 states, and in just about all of them, there have been multiple gatherings for people to speak out. In states like California and New York, there have been many more than in other states, obviously. And of that number of protests and gatherings, we know of a small handful where some people have acted badly – and in each case, the police have been able to quickly deal with the problem. I believe what we’re seeing in several of those cases is that there are always some people who want to take advantage of a situation to go out and break the law. We see this when a soccer team wins or loses the championship. We’ve seen this in Los Angeles when the Lakers won their first championship in 2000. It’s a phenomena that isn’t about race – it’s just about some people, frankly, being jerks and/or criminals.
Los Angeles has been almost completely peaceful, in spite of right wing attempts to spin up paranoia about wild black people rioting. Now, when the Rodney King verdict happened in 1992, THAT was a riot. That was a situation where part of the city was literally on fire. That was a time when it really wasn’t safe to go outside in parts of Los Angeles and there was a very real sense of danger. And that’s the fear that these outlets are trying to drum up today. Except that we’re not seeing riots or anything like that today.
Given that they don’t have the huge riots they predicted, right wing AM station KFI in Los Angeles has now taken the approach that the protests are distracting “hundreds of police officers from doing their jobs”. They’ve tried to blow up any incident of a protest where someone gets arrested and then pair it with a robbery or a murder somewhere else in the city. The silliest notion of this came this morning, when they tried to say that some burglars in Hollywood were supposedly taking advantage of the police not being present. Which is total nonsense. We have a massive police force in Los Angeles, and there’s plenty of police on duty in Hollywood. There certainly have been some cutbacks in recent years, but not because some people are protesting in different areas. The cutbacks were due to California and Los Angeles having budgetary problems – hence layoffs of teachers, and furloughs of various state and local government employees. If there’s a reason we haven’t expanded our police presence further, it’s budgetary. On any given day in Los Angeles, there are ALWAYS protests happening somewhere over something. There are a few more lately due to this trial, but nothing that would cause everyone to suddenly lose their focus. So the entire premise of this right wing meme is false from the beginning.
I would further add that this notion that President Obama is being divisive is ridiculous on its face. The President expressed sympathy for grieving parents last year in a tasteful and humane manner. After the verdict was announced, the President clearly stated that people should calmly reflect on what had happened and work to try to limit gun violence in the future. How in the world is such a statement divisive? I would argue that the President has been trying to bring the country together, and that various media outlets like KFI and Fox News are the ones trying to divide it. And sneers like the ones I’m hearing on the radio or on Fox News feel like a much more divisive force than a President asking for calm reflection.
Kevin Koster commented on Zimmerman’s Brother: No Remorse But He’d Give Trayvon Martin’s Family A Hug If He Ran Into Them
2013-07-16 12:50:34 -0400
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Not sure what Mark Meyer is referring to. Assuming he’s referring to the interview, the clip is embedded above.
Obviously, these statements by Zimmerman’s brother are shocking and designed to continue the narrative of portraying Trayvon Martin as a criminal punk who deserved to be shot to death. He’s also clearly trying to head off a potential civil suit by continuing to repeat the notion that Zimmerman had no choice.
Now, to be fair, Zimmerman’s parents gave an interview as well, and they gave a sincere apology from what I heard of it. I’ll wait to see a full playback to know for certain, but the clip that I saw included what looked to me to be a heartfelt sentiment. Sadly, the brother is doing nothing of the kind.
I would think he would be a little more careful in tempting the Martin family toward litigation. While I don’t know that the DOJ will actually bring civil rights charges against Zimmerman, I do know that the Martin family has every right to sue Zimmerman in civil court for his behavior. And civil litigation operates under very different rules than criminal cases – they don’t have to prove Zimmerman’s fallacies beyond a reasonable doubt. A jury in a civil trial could assign him a proportionate amount of responsibility or even a complete amount of responsibility, given that he chose to leave his vehicle, chase, stalk and confront Trayvon Martin even after being expressly told not to do so. Now, I had thought that the Martin family might avoid such a suit, mostly due to the fact that Zimmerman doesn’t have any money to hand over. They’d be winning a judgment against a person who is likely to declare bankruptcy and never pay it. But if Zimmerman and his brother were to be making provocative, condescending and even gleeful comments like this in public about the matter, the Martin family may well decide to take up the lawsuit anyway.
Obviously, these statements by Zimmerman’s brother are shocking and designed to continue the narrative of portraying Trayvon Martin as a criminal punk who deserved to be shot to death. He’s also clearly trying to head off a potential civil suit by continuing to repeat the notion that Zimmerman had no choice.
Now, to be fair, Zimmerman’s parents gave an interview as well, and they gave a sincere apology from what I heard of it. I’ll wait to see a full playback to know for certain, but the clip that I saw included what looked to me to be a heartfelt sentiment. Sadly, the brother is doing nothing of the kind.
I would think he would be a little more careful in tempting the Martin family toward litigation. While I don’t know that the DOJ will actually bring civil rights charges against Zimmerman, I do know that the Martin family has every right to sue Zimmerman in civil court for his behavior. And civil litigation operates under very different rules than criminal cases – they don’t have to prove Zimmerman’s fallacies beyond a reasonable doubt. A jury in a civil trial could assign him a proportionate amount of responsibility or even a complete amount of responsibility, given that he chose to leave his vehicle, chase, stalk and confront Trayvon Martin even after being expressly told not to do so. Now, I had thought that the Martin family might avoid such a suit, mostly due to the fact that Zimmerman doesn’t have any money to hand over. They’d be winning a judgment against a person who is likely to declare bankruptcy and never pay it. But if Zimmerman and his brother were to be making provocative, condescending and even gleeful comments like this in public about the matter, the Martin family may well decide to take up the lawsuit anyway.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox Nation Still Demonizing Trayvon Martin
2013-07-16 03:19:34 -0400
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This is while I have people on other websites telling me that they’ve never seen ANYONE attack Trayvon Martin’s character. I feel sometimes as though dealing with people in Bizarro World…
Kevin Koster commented on Geraldo Rivera Still Blaming Trayvon Martin For His Own Death
2013-08-08 17:16:05 -0400
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DN, first let me say that I appreciate your last statement. And you haven’t had too many grammatical errors I could see. We both are guilty of run-ons, so I would be the pot calling the kettle obsidian if I went there.
As far as Trayvon or Zimmerman’s thoughts or feelings go, we do have some ideas. Zimmerman himself has told us what he was thinking, both from his call to the dispatcher and from his subsequent questioning. Trayvon Martin’s thoughts have been relayed to us via Rachel Jeantel. Both accounts confirm that Trayvon was walking down the sidewalk when he was spotted by Zimmerman, who thought he looked suspicious and called the police. Martin then approached Zimmerman’s vehicle and made eye contact with him. Martin then ran, and Zimmerman jumped out of his car and ran after him, at which time he was told by the dispatcher that this was not needed. Within a few minutes, he’d caught up with Martin again, the confrontation ensued and degenerated into a fistfight, and once it had gotten to a certain point, Zimmerman pulled out his gun and killed Martin. I stand by my statement that Zimmerman’s suspicion was aroused by the sight of a black teenage male in a hoodie who he didn’t recognize walking down the sidewalk in his neighborhood. Had this been a white teenager wearing a U2 t-shirt, I don’t think Zimmerman would have jumped to the same suspicion.
As for Zimmerman’s perception of danger, that’s not an assumption – that’s the case that his defense attorneys were making. They were trying to say that Zimmerman’s shooting of Martin was self-defense because in their opinion, Zimmerman reasonably believed he was in danger of his life.
I don’t know that Zimmerman “simply made up a story”. I think he very likely believes what he said. The problem is that some key facts don’t line up with his account, and he’s never offered an explanation for this – his refusal to testify in court speaks volumes to me about this. But that doesn’t mean he committed premeditated murder or even that had a depraved mindset while following Martin. I think Zimmerman honestly thought he was pursuing a criminal, and he acted on that assumption. The problem is that he was wrong, so his approach was way off. That wouldn’t be a matter of 2nd Degree Murder so much as a case of Manslaughter – and yes, I do believe that Zimmerman was guilty of that.
And to be honest, I believe that both the prosecution and the defense were gambling in this trial. The defense was thinking they could get the whole matter tossed out, or have a jury verdict in 12 minutes, as happened the reverse way with Marissa Alexander. The prosecution, on the other hand, was positive they had Zimmerman on Manslaughter. The typical prosecution approach is to over-charge. They show a defendant that they’re throwing the book at him, and then when it comes to making a plea deal, they knock the whole thing down to a more reasonable size. But in this case, Zimmerman refused to make a plea deal – like Marissa Alexander, he rolled the dice on an all-or-nothing prospect. Since the prosecution had threatened the 2nd Degree Murder charge, they went ahead and pursued it in court, with the understanding that they would include Manslaughter and anything else they could before sending the jury off to decide the verdict. My reaction to the trial is that they did not prove 2nd Degree Murder, but they did prove Manslaughter. The jury was unable to find that, based on the way they interpreted the Manslaughter definition, and based on the influence of key jurors who clearly felt that Zimmerman was innocent. The other jurors capitulated and the result was a Not Guilty verdict in the area of 2nd Degree Murder and of Manslaughter.
This doesn’t totally end the equation, of course. Martin’s family has the right to sue Zimmerman in civil court, just as the Goldmans and Browns sued O.J. in the 90s. And if Zimmerman tries to make a windfall profit off this matter, say by suing Florida or suing NBC, or by writing a book, or selling his story to a movie producer, I have a feeling you’ll see that lawsuit materialize very quickly.
As far as Trayvon or Zimmerman’s thoughts or feelings go, we do have some ideas. Zimmerman himself has told us what he was thinking, both from his call to the dispatcher and from his subsequent questioning. Trayvon Martin’s thoughts have been relayed to us via Rachel Jeantel. Both accounts confirm that Trayvon was walking down the sidewalk when he was spotted by Zimmerman, who thought he looked suspicious and called the police. Martin then approached Zimmerman’s vehicle and made eye contact with him. Martin then ran, and Zimmerman jumped out of his car and ran after him, at which time he was told by the dispatcher that this was not needed. Within a few minutes, he’d caught up with Martin again, the confrontation ensued and degenerated into a fistfight, and once it had gotten to a certain point, Zimmerman pulled out his gun and killed Martin. I stand by my statement that Zimmerman’s suspicion was aroused by the sight of a black teenage male in a hoodie who he didn’t recognize walking down the sidewalk in his neighborhood. Had this been a white teenager wearing a U2 t-shirt, I don’t think Zimmerman would have jumped to the same suspicion.
As for Zimmerman’s perception of danger, that’s not an assumption – that’s the case that his defense attorneys were making. They were trying to say that Zimmerman’s shooting of Martin was self-defense because in their opinion, Zimmerman reasonably believed he was in danger of his life.
I don’t know that Zimmerman “simply made up a story”. I think he very likely believes what he said. The problem is that some key facts don’t line up with his account, and he’s never offered an explanation for this – his refusal to testify in court speaks volumes to me about this. But that doesn’t mean he committed premeditated murder or even that had a depraved mindset while following Martin. I think Zimmerman honestly thought he was pursuing a criminal, and he acted on that assumption. The problem is that he was wrong, so his approach was way off. That wouldn’t be a matter of 2nd Degree Murder so much as a case of Manslaughter – and yes, I do believe that Zimmerman was guilty of that.
And to be honest, I believe that both the prosecution and the defense were gambling in this trial. The defense was thinking they could get the whole matter tossed out, or have a jury verdict in 12 minutes, as happened the reverse way with Marissa Alexander. The prosecution, on the other hand, was positive they had Zimmerman on Manslaughter. The typical prosecution approach is to over-charge. They show a defendant that they’re throwing the book at him, and then when it comes to making a plea deal, they knock the whole thing down to a more reasonable size. But in this case, Zimmerman refused to make a plea deal – like Marissa Alexander, he rolled the dice on an all-or-nothing prospect. Since the prosecution had threatened the 2nd Degree Murder charge, they went ahead and pursued it in court, with the understanding that they would include Manslaughter and anything else they could before sending the jury off to decide the verdict. My reaction to the trial is that they did not prove 2nd Degree Murder, but they did prove Manslaughter. The jury was unable to find that, based on the way they interpreted the Manslaughter definition, and based on the influence of key jurors who clearly felt that Zimmerman was innocent. The other jurors capitulated and the result was a Not Guilty verdict in the area of 2nd Degree Murder and of Manslaughter.
This doesn’t totally end the equation, of course. Martin’s family has the right to sue Zimmerman in civil court, just as the Goldmans and Browns sued O.J. in the 90s. And if Zimmerman tries to make a windfall profit off this matter, say by suing Florida or suing NBC, or by writing a book, or selling his story to a movie producer, I have a feeling you’ll see that lawsuit materialize very quickly.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox Nation: The Worldwide Web Arm Of The George Zimmerman Fan Club
2013-07-15 15:30:29 -0400
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There’s a definite double standard being applied here. With this jury verdict, people who disagree with it are told “The jury has spoken. He was proven innocent. You lose. Be quiet.” With the O.J. verdict (and the Ramos & Compean matter, and the Casey Anthony verdict), we heard “The jury was wrong. This is unjust. We won’t forget the truth of what really happened in this case.”
In other words, when the right wing media likes a verdict, then that’s the end of the story. When they don’t like the verdict, then something’s amiss and they can continue to discuss it ad nauseum.
In other words, when the right wing media likes a verdict, then that’s the end of the story. When they don’t like the verdict, then something’s amiss and they can continue to discuss it ad nauseum.
Kevin Koster commented on Chris Wallace Takes His Turn Using Zimmerman Case To Race Bait Against President Obama
2013-07-14 19:34:08 -0400
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I’m trying to figure out when the judicial body of the great state of Florida was federalized. Because if I’m reading this post correctly, these guys are trying to say that this case was “U.S. v Zimmerman” rather than “State of Florida v Zimmerman”.
Does Wallace not know what court was trying the case?
Does Wallace not know what court was trying the case?
Kevin Koster commented on Geraldo Rivera Uses George Zimmerman Verdict To Racially Smear President Obama
2013-07-15 04:05:26 -0400
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“Alan Davey” appears to be the same person who fled another discussion on this site when he couldn’t back up his statements. Which is likely the same person who tried to blow up several other articles with nasty and mean-spirited comments both about the case and other posters.
But assuming this is the same “Alan” who ran into trouble on the “Who Needs a Jury” article, I would ask him to provide the humble apologies he still needs to offer for his conduct in the earlier discussion. He made nasty personal comments in my direction, regarding my litigation background, and I would hope that he would be prepared to own up to his earlier mistakes. This goes beyond his citation of non-existent witnesses and his cherry-picking of testimony to only hear the parts that lined up with his preconceptions.
It’s interesting that “Alan” brings up the jewelry matter from Trayvon’s school record. He forgets that nobody has ever claimed the jewelry and that there is no evidence that Trayvon actually did anything with those items other than hold onto them for another student, as he said he was doing. If this had been a neighborhood burglary, wouldn’t you think that someone would have claimed their property from the police? But let’s look past that, as the local police already have.
“Alan”, you may feel that the advice I have tried to offer you here and in the earlier article is not needed, but the fact is that you continue to make the same mistakes and misstatements that you did before. We’re trying to help you to learn something here. Please take some time to work on these issues and you may find it will be helpful for you. Obstinance continues to be a problem for you – a little humility would help solve that problem. Please look into it.
Your account of your unfortunate behavior in the prior article leaves out the part where I had to regularly correct your constant repetitions of the same talking points from right wing media. I posed specific questions to you there and here, and you were unable to answer them. In the prior article, you resorted to personal insults. In the current article, you’ve simply ignored the questions. Frankly, the best approach for you now would be to offer the humble and heartfelt apology called for by your prior insults. After that, you could attend to the tone you’ve been projecting. And perhaps after that point, you might be able to engage in these discussions without resorting to your previous behaviors. I seem to recall that when you were being corrected for your conduct in the past, you said you intended to end the conversation and leave. But then you couldn’t resist making further posts and thus digging yourself in deeper. Is there a reason that you continue to do this without offering the apologies you know you’ll need to eventually proffer?
Your attempt to dismiss George Zimmerman’s stalking of Trayvon Martin is strange. Zimmerman has admitted to following Martin, and we have witness testimony that Martin thought he had lost Zimmerman only for Zimmerman to find him again. We have multiple witness testimony to an argument that moved down the sidewalk until it degenerated into a fistfight – something that directly contradicts Zimmerman’s claim that Martin jumped out of the bushes and ambushed him. (Particularly since there were no bushes that Martin could have been hiding in) So where do you find “disinformation” in my factual recounting of Zimmerman’s behavior towards Trayvon Martin? We’re still waiting for ONE example and you have not been able to provide it. You have provided further insults, for which I think additional apologies from you are in order.
If you’re saying you’ve never posted here before, I have to wonder about that. We’ve had other posters trying the same approach as yours, in articles on this same subject. I find it curious that you take the identical opinion, tone and phrasing as some other people who no longer post on this site. Coincidence?
But assuming this is the same “Alan” who ran into trouble on the “Who Needs a Jury” article, I would ask him to provide the humble apologies he still needs to offer for his conduct in the earlier discussion. He made nasty personal comments in my direction, regarding my litigation background, and I would hope that he would be prepared to own up to his earlier mistakes. This goes beyond his citation of non-existent witnesses and his cherry-picking of testimony to only hear the parts that lined up with his preconceptions.
It’s interesting that “Alan” brings up the jewelry matter from Trayvon’s school record. He forgets that nobody has ever claimed the jewelry and that there is no evidence that Trayvon actually did anything with those items other than hold onto them for another student, as he said he was doing. If this had been a neighborhood burglary, wouldn’t you think that someone would have claimed their property from the police? But let’s look past that, as the local police already have.
“Alan”, you may feel that the advice I have tried to offer you here and in the earlier article is not needed, but the fact is that you continue to make the same mistakes and misstatements that you did before. We’re trying to help you to learn something here. Please take some time to work on these issues and you may find it will be helpful for you. Obstinance continues to be a problem for you – a little humility would help solve that problem. Please look into it.
Your account of your unfortunate behavior in the prior article leaves out the part where I had to regularly correct your constant repetitions of the same talking points from right wing media. I posed specific questions to you there and here, and you were unable to answer them. In the prior article, you resorted to personal insults. In the current article, you’ve simply ignored the questions. Frankly, the best approach for you now would be to offer the humble and heartfelt apology called for by your prior insults. After that, you could attend to the tone you’ve been projecting. And perhaps after that point, you might be able to engage in these discussions without resorting to your previous behaviors. I seem to recall that when you were being corrected for your conduct in the past, you said you intended to end the conversation and leave. But then you couldn’t resist making further posts and thus digging yourself in deeper. Is there a reason that you continue to do this without offering the apologies you know you’ll need to eventually proffer?
Your attempt to dismiss George Zimmerman’s stalking of Trayvon Martin is strange. Zimmerman has admitted to following Martin, and we have witness testimony that Martin thought he had lost Zimmerman only for Zimmerman to find him again. We have multiple witness testimony to an argument that moved down the sidewalk until it degenerated into a fistfight – something that directly contradicts Zimmerman’s claim that Martin jumped out of the bushes and ambushed him. (Particularly since there were no bushes that Martin could have been hiding in) So where do you find “disinformation” in my factual recounting of Zimmerman’s behavior towards Trayvon Martin? We’re still waiting for ONE example and you have not been able to provide it. You have provided further insults, for which I think additional apologies from you are in order.
If you’re saying you’ve never posted here before, I have to wonder about that. We’ve had other posters trying the same approach as yours, in articles on this same subject. I find it curious that you take the identical opinion, tone and phrasing as some other people who no longer post on this site. Coincidence?
Kevin Koster commented on Hannity Interrupts His Zimmerman Trial Coverage For A Special Message From Ann Coulter About Race
2013-07-13 12:27:01 -0400
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Ellen, thank you for embedding the Limbaugh comments into this article. People will need to remember that maneuver by him, to have it lie in state along with the various other nasty potshots he’s taken over time – from Sandra Fluke to Michael J. Fox to Iraq War Veteran protestors. I do hope there will come a day when the man is brought to account for the sheer nastiness he has fomented since he adopted this radio persona in the 80s.
As for the idea of Sean Hannity hosting a heartfelt discussion about race relations and the death of Trayvon Martin, I can’t imagine anything more hypocritical. That’s a subject I would think he should avoid by a long shot if he had any respect for the families involved.
What’s been nasty to the level of being sinister about the AM radio/Fox News coverage here has been the veneer of phony concern sitting atop some fairly racist ideas. On the one hand, you have the various hosts enthusiastically rooting for George Zimmerman to be acquitted and making increasingly nasty comments about Martin, his family and the witnesses speaking on his behalf. On the other, you have some of those same hosts taking a cue to “take it down for a moment” and solemnly talk about what a tragedy the whole thing is. And sitting just under the surface is a fairly rancid narrative of the situation.
Because while Hannity is trying to sound dignified and sensitive, the story he’s telling is anything but. As presented by Hannity and the other Fox News pundits, the story of this killing winds up being how Trayvon Martin was an uppity punk who attacked George Zimmerman, tried to viciously kill him and got what he deserved. Because when you peel back the veneer over what these pundits have been saying, it boils down to the idea that Martin deserved to be killed and that Zimmerman was right to kill him. What’s taken this past the point of being offensive is the whole “They’re gonna riot!!” meme – which is a short way of saying that those uppity people are going to have a race riot because they’re too immature to respect a jury verdict. (And this gets coupled usually with a shot about how there never should have been a trial in the first place – and there only was one because people were being uppity, not because there was any grounds.
These guys can try to explain this away, but that’s the basic rationale that underlies what has been a truly sad and scary moment for right wing punditry. It’s been a moment where these pundits have completely contradicted their own normal “law and order” stance to stick up for a man who killed a 17 year old in a situation that he not only could have avoided but was in fact TOLD to avoid.
As for the idea of Sean Hannity hosting a heartfelt discussion about race relations and the death of Trayvon Martin, I can’t imagine anything more hypocritical. That’s a subject I would think he should avoid by a long shot if he had any respect for the families involved.
What’s been nasty to the level of being sinister about the AM radio/Fox News coverage here has been the veneer of phony concern sitting atop some fairly racist ideas. On the one hand, you have the various hosts enthusiastically rooting for George Zimmerman to be acquitted and making increasingly nasty comments about Martin, his family and the witnesses speaking on his behalf. On the other, you have some of those same hosts taking a cue to “take it down for a moment” and solemnly talk about what a tragedy the whole thing is. And sitting just under the surface is a fairly rancid narrative of the situation.
Because while Hannity is trying to sound dignified and sensitive, the story he’s telling is anything but. As presented by Hannity and the other Fox News pundits, the story of this killing winds up being how Trayvon Martin was an uppity punk who attacked George Zimmerman, tried to viciously kill him and got what he deserved. Because when you peel back the veneer over what these pundits have been saying, it boils down to the idea that Martin deserved to be killed and that Zimmerman was right to kill him. What’s taken this past the point of being offensive is the whole “They’re gonna riot!!” meme – which is a short way of saying that those uppity people are going to have a race riot because they’re too immature to respect a jury verdict. (And this gets coupled usually with a shot about how there never should have been a trial in the first place – and there only was one because people were being uppity, not because there was any grounds.
These guys can try to explain this away, but that’s the basic rationale that underlies what has been a truly sad and scary moment for right wing punditry. It’s been a moment where these pundits have completely contradicted their own normal “law and order” stance to stick up for a man who killed a 17 year old in a situation that he not only could have avoided but was in fact TOLD to avoid.
Kevin Koster commented on O’Reilly Factor Race Baits Jesse Jackson’s Call For Calm After Zimmerman Verdict
2013-07-14 05:05:04 -0400
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It’s truly a sad state of affairs when someone like “John Smyth” feels it’s acceptable to go on a message board and do an end zone dance in the face of the families involved in this situation. I do wonder if he understands how offensive such a display really is.
Like any rational person will, I accept the verdict of this jury. These 6 people were not able to see around the various smokescreens of doubt that a skilled (and well-financed) defense team was able to raise. I accept this verdict in the same way that I accepted the verdict in the O.J. Simpson trial, and the Casey Anthony trial, and the Twilight Zone trial, and the Ramos & Compean trial. Because that is the nature of our judicial system. I wonder if the right wing pundits who are currently celebrating did so in any of the cases I just mentioned.
The facts of the situation remain unchanged. George Zimmerman will spend the rest of his days living with his behavior – both in the killing of an unarmed 17 year old and in the various untruths he told in the aftermath of his actions.
The facts have not changed that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, followed him, stalked him after being told not to do so, confronted him, and killed him. The facts remain that Zimmerman was unable to explain how Trayvon Martin could have been hiding in bushes that didn’t exist, how Martin could have instantly attacked him when the neighbors heard their argument, how Martin could have been holding a hand over his nose and mouth when there was no DNA or blood on Martin’s hands, or how Martin could have seen and reached for a gun that was underneath Zimmerman and out of Martin’s ability to see. And the fact remains that Zimmerman’s refusal to testify to explain any of this left the jury without any way to resolve any of their questions.
Sadly, the jury in this case was left only with the testimony of the person who pulled the trigger, augmented only by the opinions of people who only saw or heard bits of what was happening.
In the case of Oscar Grant, there was irrefutable proof in the form of multiple digital videos taken of Meserle shooting Grant on the BART station floor. In that case, the jury was able to find him guilty of manslaughter, since they could see the exact sequence of events. In this case, the jury was left only with the version of events presented by Zimmerman, with nothing else other than people’s opinions and the background noises in a couple of 911 calls.
I don’t foresee any of the riots that the right wing seems to want to foment at the current time. I do see a situation where more people will despair about how one man can profile, follow, stalk, confront and kill another person, and essentially walk away.
Like any rational person will, I accept the verdict of this jury. These 6 people were not able to see around the various smokescreens of doubt that a skilled (and well-financed) defense team was able to raise. I accept this verdict in the same way that I accepted the verdict in the O.J. Simpson trial, and the Casey Anthony trial, and the Twilight Zone trial, and the Ramos & Compean trial. Because that is the nature of our judicial system. I wonder if the right wing pundits who are currently celebrating did so in any of the cases I just mentioned.
The facts of the situation remain unchanged. George Zimmerman will spend the rest of his days living with his behavior – both in the killing of an unarmed 17 year old and in the various untruths he told in the aftermath of his actions.
The facts have not changed that George Zimmerman profiled Trayvon Martin, followed him, stalked him after being told not to do so, confronted him, and killed him. The facts remain that Zimmerman was unable to explain how Trayvon Martin could have been hiding in bushes that didn’t exist, how Martin could have instantly attacked him when the neighbors heard their argument, how Martin could have been holding a hand over his nose and mouth when there was no DNA or blood on Martin’s hands, or how Martin could have seen and reached for a gun that was underneath Zimmerman and out of Martin’s ability to see. And the fact remains that Zimmerman’s refusal to testify to explain any of this left the jury without any way to resolve any of their questions.
Sadly, the jury in this case was left only with the testimony of the person who pulled the trigger, augmented only by the opinions of people who only saw or heard bits of what was happening.
In the case of Oscar Grant, there was irrefutable proof in the form of multiple digital videos taken of Meserle shooting Grant on the BART station floor. In that case, the jury was able to find him guilty of manslaughter, since they could see the exact sequence of events. In this case, the jury was left only with the version of events presented by Zimmerman, with nothing else other than people’s opinions and the background noises in a couple of 911 calls.
I don’t foresee any of the riots that the right wing seems to want to foment at the current time. I do see a situation where more people will despair about how one man can profile, follow, stalk, confront and kill another person, and essentially walk away.
Kevin Koster commented on Hannity Race Baits Over Sharpton’s Calls For Peaceful Reactions To Zimmerman Verdict
2013-07-12 16:09:03 -0400
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MLP is right – Limbaugh has really been going for the prize in “Most Gleeful Cheerleading”.
Kevin Koster commented on Geraldo Rivera: Zimmerman Jurors Would Have Shot And Killed Trayvon Martin Sooner Than Zimmerman Did
2013-07-12 15:40:42 -0400
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Thanks to Truman and to Doors. Very kind words.
I’m frankly just disturbed by the way this case has been handled by AM radio and Fox News. It’s a genuinely scary thing to me to see people cheerleading the death of a 17 year old.
I’m frankly just disturbed by the way this case has been handled by AM radio and Fox News. It’s a genuinely scary thing to me to see people cheerleading the death of a 17 year old.
Kevin Koster commented on Hannity And Mark Fuhrman Fear Monger About African American Riots In The Wake Of The (Certain) Zimmerman Acquittal
2013-07-10 19:53:29 -0400
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In the event that Zimmerman is somehow able to get away with his actions here, I don’t think you’ll see mass disorder. More likely that you could see an unhappy press conference or two and some angry columns online and in the press. In the event of Zimmerman being convicted, say, of manslaughter, you’ll definitely see right wing pundits decrying the “injustice” of it all.
But what has really been leaving a bad taste throughout has been the glee some right wingers have really been showing here. There’s a real sense of enthusiastic support for Zimmerman in a situation where one has to wonder about its basis. The whole notion of painting Trayvon Martin as somehow being the wrongdoer here is particularly distasteful, but the right wing approach has been to play the situation as Martin somehow deserving to be killed and Zimmerman deserving to be celebrated for having killed him. In the case of Ramos and Compean, it was obvious that the right wing pundits wanted the guys to get away with shooting Davila in the back – since this would send a message to Mexican drugrunners not to repeat his actions. In this case, the right wing “lesson” seems to be to tell young black men to “watch what they do, watch what they say”. And in 2013, that’s a scary premise indeed.
But what has really been leaving a bad taste throughout has been the glee some right wingers have really been showing here. There’s a real sense of enthusiastic support for Zimmerman in a situation where one has to wonder about its basis. The whole notion of painting Trayvon Martin as somehow being the wrongdoer here is particularly distasteful, but the right wing approach has been to play the situation as Martin somehow deserving to be killed and Zimmerman deserving to be celebrated for having killed him. In the case of Ramos and Compean, it was obvious that the right wing pundits wanted the guys to get away with shooting Davila in the back – since this would send a message to Mexican drugrunners not to repeat his actions. In this case, the right wing “lesson” seems to be to tell young black men to “watch what they do, watch what they say”. And in 2013, that’s a scary premise indeed.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox Does Its Part To Abolish The IRS
2013-07-08 21:50:34 -0400
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What you’re seeing here is a symptom of the complete breakdown within the Republican Party. Here you have Cavuto happily talking about hard right wing people trying to primary “RINO Republicans” for the offense of having tried to pass some bipartisan legislation. And you have him encouraging this person to spout a pile of nonsense about the IRS and her opinions without making the kind of vigorous challenges he would do with a person on the other side of the aisle. Wasn’t it only a month ago that he screamed at a guest and cut their microphone? But that person wasn’t arguing for the abolition of a major federal agency…
Kevin Koster commented on Fox Guest Describes Trayvon Martin’s Mother As A Liar
2013-07-05 21:17:25 -0400
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This was a pretty despicable move by the defense attorney – and it sounded like a desperation play. They were hoping the mother would somehow waver on her belief that the voice she heard was her son. But the mother has never wavered about that, so this was a blind alley for them to be trying.
And none of this changes the basic facts of the case – that Zimmerman profiled Martin, followed him, stalked him, confronted him and set in motion a fight that ended with him killing Martin. He ignored police instructions and the training he had received in terms of police work and Neighborhood Watch volunteer matters. He chose not to identify himself at any time, to any of the people in the neighborhood, and when he confronted Martin, he didn’t say anything about Neighborhood Watch concerns. His state of mind while he was chasing Martin is clear from the recorded call – he thought that Martin was another of those “
There’s an interesting point that has been made about the testimony of the lead investigator earlier this week – where Zimmerman was apparently happy to hear that something of the fight had been recorded on a cell phone camera (which was actually a bogus idea). It’s very possible that Zimmerman was hoping that the footage would show him being beaten up and thus somehow qualifying for the “Stand Your Ground” defense. Zimmerman doesn’t seem to have ever understood the idea that instigating a fight does not allow one to then kill the opponent and then claim “self defense.”
Now, whether this will be enough to convince the jury that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd Degree Murder is an open question. But the prosecution has an option after the defense presents its case to allow a “lesser included” offense to be considered by the jury. Meaning that they can allow the jury to consider manslaughter or negligent homicide. As even the Fox News sources have admitted, this is an extremely likely scenario – and a manslaughter conviction against Zimmerman could be compounded by the fact that it was manslaughter of a minor, and done with a handgun – which would automatically result in Zimmerman being sentenced to 30 years in prison. The prosecution is certainly aware of this. (And a strong case can be made that Zimmerman could have avoided all of this by pleading out to manslaughter or negligent homicide. Since he chose to hang tough, the prosecution brought the maximum charges against him and has been able to play those out in court, to his obvious chagrin.)
It’s interesting that Fox News is expending so much energy trying to defend Zimmerman, and trying to paint his supporters as liars and disreputable people. And beyond this, you have some of the Zimmerman supporters darkly predicting Rodney King-style riots breaking out if he somehow gets to walk away from this killing. I personally don’t see that happening. But in the event of a conviction of Zimmerman, I do see right wing media going up in arms about the “injustice” of the whole matter. They’ve already tried to play the game of saying that the charges were only brought due to politics. It’s only a short hop to saying that the conviction was due to the same thing.
And none of this changes the basic facts of the case – that Zimmerman profiled Martin, followed him, stalked him, confronted him and set in motion a fight that ended with him killing Martin. He ignored police instructions and the training he had received in terms of police work and Neighborhood Watch volunteer matters. He chose not to identify himself at any time, to any of the people in the neighborhood, and when he confronted Martin, he didn’t say anything about Neighborhood Watch concerns. His state of mind while he was chasing Martin is clear from the recorded call – he thought that Martin was another of those “
$
!ing punks” who “always get away”. And he figured he was going to make a heroic catch here. Instead, he provoked a fight that he found himself losing – until he pulled a gun and killed the other guy. The idea that he completely forgot the “Stand Your Ground” law is laughable.
There’s an interesting point that has been made about the testimony of the lead investigator earlier this week – where Zimmerman was apparently happy to hear that something of the fight had been recorded on a cell phone camera (which was actually a bogus idea). It’s very possible that Zimmerman was hoping that the footage would show him being beaten up and thus somehow qualifying for the “Stand Your Ground” defense. Zimmerman doesn’t seem to have ever understood the idea that instigating a fight does not allow one to then kill the opponent and then claim “self defense.”
Now, whether this will be enough to convince the jury that Zimmerman is guilty of 2nd Degree Murder is an open question. But the prosecution has an option after the defense presents its case to allow a “lesser included” offense to be considered by the jury. Meaning that they can allow the jury to consider manslaughter or negligent homicide. As even the Fox News sources have admitted, this is an extremely likely scenario – and a manslaughter conviction against Zimmerman could be compounded by the fact that it was manslaughter of a minor, and done with a handgun – which would automatically result in Zimmerman being sentenced to 30 years in prison. The prosecution is certainly aware of this. (And a strong case can be made that Zimmerman could have avoided all of this by pleading out to manslaughter or negligent homicide. Since he chose to hang tough, the prosecution brought the maximum charges against him and has been able to play those out in court, to his obvious chagrin.)
It’s interesting that Fox News is expending so much energy trying to defend Zimmerman, and trying to paint his supporters as liars and disreputable people. And beyond this, you have some of the Zimmerman supporters darkly predicting Rodney King-style riots breaking out if he somehow gets to walk away from this killing. I personally don’t see that happening. But in the event of a conviction of Zimmerman, I do see right wing media going up in arms about the “injustice” of the whole matter. They’ve already tried to play the game of saying that the charges were only brought due to politics. It’s only a short hop to saying that the conviction was due to the same thing.
Kevin Koster commented on Fox News Fights The War On July 4th
2013-07-05 04:01:57 -0400
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doors,
I actually spent two hours with my dog (I should say my roommate’s dog) Angel, who was terrified of the fireworks. All the noise in the world in the house would not distract her. There were some loud displays in the area, and she wasn’t having any of it. I enjoy the 4th of July but it’s evident that Angel has some issues with it. On the other hand, if you didn’t know what those loud bangs were and you were a dog, that would be pretty scary…
I actually spent two hours with my dog (I should say my roommate’s dog) Angel, who was terrified of the fireworks. All the noise in the world in the house would not distract her. There were some loud displays in the area, and she wasn’t having any of it. I enjoy the 4th of July but it’s evident that Angel has some issues with it. On the other hand, if you didn’t know what those loud bangs were and you were a dog, that would be pretty scary…