Is there anything more ironic and hypocritical than listening to Fox News pundits clutching their pearls over the disrespect Vice President Biden supposedly showed Paul Ryan in the debate last night?
The whining started immediately after the debate. In a post-debate discussion hosted by Bret Baier and Megyn Kelly, the first guests were conservative Stephen Hayes and Fox News Democrat Joe Trippi.
Interestingly, Kelly didn’t ask who either thought won, but delved straight into whether Biden went “too far” with “the smirking, such that the substance will be undermined?”
Trippi said he thought Biden “had a very strong debate” but “was diminished, I thought …by the smirking and he overdid it.” Trippi, went on to give some gratuitous props to Paul Ryan, saying he was surprised to see “how strong” he was on “foreign policy.” He allowed as how Biden scored some major points before adding, “But I don’t know about the likeability of that smirking and how he sort of overdid – I found it condescending and overdone.”
Do you think Hayes, on the "other side," had any criticism of Ryan or props for Biden? Of course not! He, too complained about Biden smirking, especially during Ryan’s thank you's t the end which, according to Hayes, “came across as very disrespectful and sort of symbolic of the way that Joe Biden handled the rest of the night."
Next up Brit Hume. He said, “If you read the transcript, you might well conclude that the vice president had a very strong debate… But that’s not all there is to it.” Hume sounded irate as he said that in person, Biden was “smirking, laughing, smiling, mugging.” He thought people would find that “so compelling,” that it would have been hard to take their eyes off Biden and, therefore, it came down to whether or not that was appealing. Hume, predictably, did not. He said, "I thought it was unattractive. I thought it was rude and I have a feeling it will come across to an awful lot of people – it looked like a cranky old man, to some extent, debating a polite young man.”
Greta Van Susteren threw in with the “disrespectful” lot. She claimed to like both men. But she found Ryan “polite and respectful.” But Biden, not so much. “The smiles, the sneers… I thought he was very unlikeable,” Van Susteren said.
Then Chris Wallace made an appearance. He said he didn’t think he had “ever seen a debate in which one participant was as openly disrespectful of the other as Biden was to Paul Ryan was tonight. And that’s what it was… openly contemptuous and disrespectful.”
Nobody’s tender feelings were smarting more than Sean Hannity's. “As I watch a rude, condescending, interruptive, mean-spirited vice president tonight, this is not going to play well. I’ll tell you right now.” He went on to say that two polls say that Romney won the debate.
But despite all that whining, neither Hannity nor any of the others actually said Ryan won.
It’s laughable for anyone on Fox to be complaining about disrespect toward a vice presidential candidate when there probably hasn’t been a day since President Obama’s inauguration that he hasn’t been disrespected on the "fair and balanced" network. He’s been called a socialist, “nauseating” and “disgusting,” portrayed as a traitor who wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon, someone with contempt for the Constitution who wants to undermine the Second Amendment, and, most famously, as an illegitimate president with a phony birth certificate to cover up the fact that he was born in Africa. Fox’s Heather Childers still has a job as a Fox News anchor even after she asked for her Twitter-feed readers’ “thoughts” as to whether, in 2008, the Obama campaign threatened Chelsea Clinton’s life in order to keep her parents quiet over his birth certificate. And Fox Newsies regularly slobber over Birther Boy Donald Trump.
On Fox, personal responsibility is, apparently, reserved for poor people and minorities.
I use hyphens as a punctuation mark all the time and have never got that strike-out effect – perhaps because I put an empty space before and after.
As I posted before, part of the corporate machine being in the tank for Romney is that they threaten to pull their sponsorship money out of anywhere that gives him too much negative attention. You say what they want to hear about MItt, or your funding goes.
If you compare Biden to Romney, Romney was far ruder
Should Biden have waited for his turn? Yes. But what is admittedly rude from Biden is tame compared to Romney’s act, and it’s not like Ryan was exactly civil himself. Why can’t Fox News call both sides out on it? Everyone else did…
“I reject your reality and replace it with my own.”
At the end of the day the facts remains. You can interpret them any way you choose; and I’ll do likewise. Biden did himself no favors even though he re-invigorated a party that’s not quite so sure of themselves, or outcomes. A good thing. So I suppose looking the fool isn’t as important to some as others.
And yes, @MJ, disrespect is disrespect. I’m no advocate of Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter (I can’t speak about Sarah Palin because I don’t know that I’ve ever listened to her) or any other of their ilk – - including a good many liberal commentators as well. One needn’t froth at the mouth to get their point across.
And @Visitor … who’s preaching here? Read back over the posts, MY FRIEND. As for news sources “as noxious as Fox”, I felt I’d covered that. Apparently no. Spend a wee bit of time at MSNBC, CBS and various segments of CNN, to name a few. Soledad O’Brien, Stephanie Cutter, Harry Reid & Andrea Mitchell have their own unique brand of spin – every bit as noxious as the ones you assign to Megyn Kelly, Bill O’Reilly & others.
Another thing that gets me is how the “credibility” of something (the polls, the media, or whatever) can flip depending on the position adopted by that something (polls, media, etc.). That’s definitely a Foxy trait and it is mind-bottlingly (mis-spelling intended) unabashed.
While being happy for one’s side amounts only to being happy for one’s side (IMO and full stop), using a different ruler for “them” and “us” is hypocrisy. That’s what gets my goat with Fox News and I do find it to be insidiously contagious. My antidote is to watch other sources …. with a truly open mind, however.
Yep — that much was evident when she got thrown by the word “carnival.” Lol.
when a neocon/teabagger smirks, itâs called âkicking Obamaâs assâ and celebrated as a win. When a Democratic does the exact same thing, s/he is being disrespectful.
I’m STILL waiting for Kathleen, John “the Independent”, or norm snore to tell us if it was “disrespectful” when Sister Sarah winked . . .
However, I did ask you to provide proof of any news outlet on the left that is as disrespectful and noxious as FoxGOPTV. I’ll take your non-answer as fact that you cannot provide proof of any news outlet on the left that is as disrespectful and noxious as FoxGOPTV. Instead you did exactly what I asked you not to do. You cried “but the libruls do it too.” Thank you for exposing your true colors. You are not to be taken seriously, and you have no interest in a serious discussion. You’re just here to preach and pretend you’re so much smarter than anyone else.
The point of this thread relates directly to Biden’s behavior last night. So far as I know, that’s the topic. Are you saying that Biden’s churlishness is OK because Romney’s behavior was equally so? Somehow that smacks of “neener-neener”. Besides, Biden wasn’t a lively, aggressive debator. He was weird and acted like a buffoon.
I wish I did have all the answers. I’d sleep better. As it is, I am among a large percentage of this country that does not like our current adminstration, their policies and the trajectory of our country under their auspices. My guess is that you take the opposite view.
Welcome to all things political.
That said, I work with the media, and here’s something I noticed. You remember Romney’s smirk, his eye rolling, his calling Obama “Bro,” and his little cheat sheet?
Which his campaign tried to say was a hankerchief he just happened to put into his stack of papers?
Oh, and remember all the fights he picked with Jim Leher?
The right didn’t have one word condemning or questioning any of that. Not. One. Word. In fact, when when the topic came up, all they talked about was when Obama pointed out that he was cut off with five seconds left, which they called “arrogant.” People who talked about Romney were attacked on the air and threatened by sponsors that their money went if Romney continued being criticized.
I’ll go one step further- my co-workers were told to not compare the two this morning. We were flat told by the office that we couldn’t compare Romney’s perceived rudeness to Biden’s.
Why is that, Kathleen? Since you apparently know so much more about this than the rest of us?
Your links, as I suspected, really do not suppurt your premise. From Huffpo, your link to “Vice Presidential Debate Polls Show Mixed Results” is really a discussion that compares the previously discredited CNN poll, vs. the CBS poll, which shows A DECIDED Biden victory.
Your other links show almost EXACTLY the same discussion.
Now, I’ve given you enough respect to chase your delusion……but I’m done with you. You have been proven to be less than a worthy opponent, which is much the case with your ilk. As I’ve said previously, the damage to YOUR side has already been done. You have either seriously overestimated your intelligence, or severely underestimated ours. In either case, you lose.
It’s great to have someone to bounce back and forth ideas with who presents their case with credible info. I agree with you that both sides bend the facts to fit their agenda but half truths are a norm for Dems whereas Untruths and Pants on Fire’s tend to dominate Rep. oratory. I do have 1 thing I must take issue with in your post, and it is not a Dem Vs Rep thing, but it bothers me constantly and is used by a great many people…WRONGLY! “I could care less….”. If you COULD care less, than you DO care about it. The phrase is, I COULDN’T care less. Sorry to nitpick but this bothers me as much as people who say “These ones?”
No – at least no more so than your pundits. And in case you don’t know who they are, check out MSNBC, Huffington Post, CBS, or wherever you can find Nancy Pelosi.
OK, I’m lightened up now.
Edited by moderator.
I asked a question. Why are you ignoring the hypocrisy? I mean, can you at least acknowledge that FoxGOPTV pukes and neocons/teabaggers are being hypocrites because they’ve been disrespecting President Obama since he got the Democratic nomination, yet they demand respect for their party members, and do it WITHOUT crying “libruls do it too”? Are you trying to tell me that there’s an equally noxious “liberal” news outlet that disrespects neocons the way FoxGOPTV disrespects non-neocons? If so, please provide credible links. Just claiming “there’s enough rhetoric & spin on both sides to go around” doesn’t cut it.
Again, you’re funny. So now saying “rat’s ass” gives me a “tone”. It’s a common expression, Kathleen. Maybe you need to lighten up a little?
Biden attacked Romney’s past statements on foreign policy. President Barack Obama had promised to end the war in Iraq, Biden said, while “Romney said that was a tragic mistake, we should have left 30,000 troops there.” Itâs true that Romney characterized Obamaâs 2011 deadline with the word “tragic.” Romney did not say ending the war was tragic; he was talking about the speed at which Obama removed all troops. Romneyâs preference was to leave a large residual force, and he has used an estimate of up to 30,000 in the past, as Biden said during the debate. We rated Bidenâs claim Half True.
Biden also claimed Romney said he “wouldn’t move heaven and earth to get (Osama) bin Laden.” We’ve rated a similar claim from an Obama ad, that Romney’s view on killing bin Laden was “it’s not worth moving heaven and earth.” The Obama team was right that Romney used those words, but it’s cherry-picking, glossing over comments describing his broader approach. Romney said he wanted to pursue all of al-Qaida, not just its leaders. We rated the claim Half True.
Biden said that Obama would end the war in Afghanistan in 2014, but claimed that Romney said the United States shouldn’t set a date, and with regard to 2014, “it depends.” Ryan responded that Romney and Ryan agree with a 2014 deadline for U.S. withdrawal. There’s some evidence for all of those claims. We checked a statement by Ryan in September that he and Romney have “always agreed” with the 2014 timetable. We found numerous instances where Romney expressed support for that deadline. His criticism was not of the date itself but the announcement of it, which he said emboldened the Taliban and endangered troops. But Romney also has said a troop withdrawal would be conditional on what the situation on the ground is — an important caveat that could leave him room to ignore the deadline. (Or, as Biden said, “it depends.”) Ryanâs previous statement was accurate but for that one detail. We rated it Mostly True.
Biden, pressed on the administration’s response to the attack in Libya, said, "We weren’t told they wanted more security " for diplomatic facilities. That statement is accurate only if you define “we” to mean “people at the White House.” A State Department officer in Libya said that he requested additional guards and was turned down by at least one other official in the State Department. The White House said Biden meant that the security requests had not been conveyed to him and others in the executive office. It’s possible that Biden and Obama were unaware of that request. Still, it was made in the State Department, which is part of the Obama administration. Even if it didn’t make its way up through the bureaucracy, a request was made. We rate the statement Mostly False.
I could care less what Fox does or doesn’t say. Same with CNN, or MSNBC, or whomever. They all have a dog in this race; and which one’s the dog depends on which bias is best served.
The point is: there’s enough rhetoric & spin on both sides to go around. Liberals see (and spin) it one way; conservatives the other. That’s probably why the country is so evenly divided over which party will do best for this country going forward.
At the end of the day you get to believe who you believe; and I’ll do likewise. I just happen to believe you’re wrong. And from your tone and “rat’s ass”, I know you think I am.
I think you and your fellow righties are missing the entire point. The neocons/teabaggers and FoxGOPTV pukes have been nothing but disrespectful toward President Obama, Democratics, non-neocons, and anyone who doesn’t agree with them, but those same neocon/teabaggers, FoxGOPTV pukes are shitting their panties because Vice President Biden failed to bestow Lyin Ryan the respect THEY feel he deserved.
I don’t give a rat’s ass what the media is saying. Understand? norm snore has given ample proof that there is no such thing as the “librul media”. (Of course that won’t stop neocons/teabaggers from whining about the “librul media” next time they report the truth about any GOPer, will it.)
Perhaps you can explain what’s not connecting here, Kathleen. Why are you all ignoring the hypocrisy by the FoxGOPTV pukes and neocon/teabaggers? Seems to me you’re all trying to deflect the attention away from Lyin Ryan’s numerous lies.
And then there’s the Benghazi debaucle. I watched Biden’s nose grow with every twist & spin he put to the subject.
You wrongly conclude that I applaud “rude buffonery” from conservatives. It’s every bit as immature on both sides of the aisle.
As for polls … they may or may not be accurate. They paint a picture; and their aggregate is little more than a thermometer. Votes trump them every time. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
Bidenâs frenetic facial fancies only highlighted the many untruths (or mis-spoken words) he put out there.
Just because youâre aggressive, loud & rude doesnât mean youâve told the truth.
Someone should tell that to Rush Limpballs, Sean Hannity, Glenda Beck, Bull OhReally, Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, etc.
Check the polls today. Check the fact-checking outlets.
B-b-but . . . I thought “polls didn’t matter; the only poll that counts is on Election Day” — at least that’s what the wingers spout every time President Obama’s popularity goes up . . . which actually occurred two days after the first presidential debate:
As for the fact-checking outlets:
1)Ryan said a Medicare board appointed by Obama will be making healthcare decisions for seniors.
The Truth: According to PolitFact Ohio, âThe Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act creates the 15-member Independent Payment Advisory Board to suggest ways to limit Medicareâs spending growth. It can be overruled by Congress. Its appointments will be done in public. It will not make decisions on individual cases.
2)Ryan said Obamacare takes $716 billion out of Medicare for seniors, and turns Medicare into a piggy bank for Obamacare.
The Truth: According to FactCheck.org, âRepublicans claim the presidentâs $716 billion âcutsâ to Medicare hurt the programâs finances. But the opposite is true. These cuts in the future growth of spending prolong the life of the Medicare trust fund, stretching the programâs finances out longer than they would last otherwise.
3)Ryan claimed 6 studies guarantee that the Romney tax cut math adds up.
The Truth: FactCheck.org found that there arenât 6 studies. There arenât five studies. In fact, there are no studies, âBut the five âstudiesâ arenât all studies and none of them was nonpartisan. Of the three that could be considered studies, two were written by Romney campaign advisers and a third was written by a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush.â
That said, I’m not sure if Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid, along with Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann came forth to announce a clear win for Ryan that the liberals visiting this site would give an inch.
“SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #1: This poll does not and cannot reflect the views of all Americans. It only represents the views of people who watched the debate. SPECIAL NOTE OF CAUTION #2: The sample of debate-watchers in this poll were 31% Democratic and 33% Republican. That indicates that the sample of debate watchers is about eight points more Republican than an average CNN poll of all Americans, so the respondents were more Republican than the general public.”
Hmmmm. Now I know how math just kinda mystifies Repubs and RW ‘independents’, but it does seem that a sampling that has 8% more Republicans than Democrats (from CNN’s words) would account for much of Ryan’s 4 point ‘victory’.
But, in any case, it’s a moot point. The real result of this debate was a serious re-energizing of the Democratic supporters. You and others can cry ‘rude’ and ‘buffoonery’ in an effort to make yourselves feel better, but the bottom line is that we’re a much happier bunch today, and that does not bode well for your side.
and in the recent past, she said her “biggest concern” for her husband, if elected, was his “mental well-being:”
So, according to Queen Anntoinette, we’re LUCKY to have someone who may have mental well-being issues running for POTUS, since his mere election will improve the nation’s economy.
That’s about as close to an outright admission of the belief that the Romneys are Kolob Overlords destined to rule over the country as it’s possible to get . . .