Big Story & O'Reilly Factor: Hey, Syria! If You Don't Do What Bush Wants, Bombs Away!
Reported by Marie Therese - December 30, 2004
The FOX News Channel has clearly been given its marching orders by the Bush Administration: Pump up hatred of Syria, rattle American sabers and threaten President Bashar Assad with a second "Shock and Awe" attack as a prelude to Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage's imminent visit to that country. In my opinion this is a carefully orchestrated media blitz, designed to give the Syrians the impression that Bush the Lesser is just waiting for the opportunity to lay waste to Syria. The ultimate goal, of course, is to force Assad into confiscating the bank accounts of wealthy Iraqis and maybe even expelling or interning all Iraqis currently living in Syria.
Yesterday, during the two shows that I monitor - Big Story with John Gibson and The O'Reilly Factor - host John Gibson interviewed two FOX Military Analysts and a reporter for the New York Sun. All three were in complete accord that Syria is supporting expatriate Iraqis who are financing attacks inside of Iraq that are killing our soldiers. Therefore, Syria must change its behavior or suffer the military consequences. These military geniuses neglected to mention, of course, how such attacks in a city the size of Damascus [3.5 million] could be carried out without tremendous loss of innocent life. Oh, how silly of me. In war there's always "regrettable" collateral damage. It comes with the territory.
The three FOX News contributors were retired Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney (USAF-Ret.), New York Sun National Security Columnist Eli Lake and Col. David Hunt (US Army-Ret.). A few of the more interesting exchanges regarding Syria are transcribed below. (ALERT: This is a very long posting and contains my transcripts of most of the three interviews, which offer a real study in the way FOX uses its viewers' trust to disseminate Bush administration propaganda.)
INTERVIEW WITH LT. GEN. THOMAS McINERNEY (USAF-Ret.), BIG STORY, 12/29/04
Lt. Gen. McInerney assessed the situation in Iraq as winnable but only if our human intelligence is improved radically and the local populace begins to report suspicious behavior. Gibson finds it "dismaying" that Iraqis living near the home that was booby-trapped did not report the "men loading bombs into this house...The neighbors that didn't notice or didn't speak up, they're blown up, too and how is it you get the Iraqi people to realize you can't put up with the presence of these people in your neighborhood. Ya' gotta report!" McInerney pointed out that it was, in fact, the neighbors who called in and reported the activity, but he can't bring himself to admit that they, too, were part of the set-up, so he skirts the issue by saying "As a matter of fact, it was the neighbors who called in finally and said that, so I think that unintentionally - they were not part of the scam because they got killed probably - they did notify the police..."
GIBSON: ...Syria. Here's Osama bin Laden saying that expenses to run terror operations in Iraq are $279,000 a week. OK? So, bin Laden has put a number on it. Now, that money is coming from somewhere and it's probably coming from those Ba'athists who took money, who took weapons, who took explosives and went to Syria. What - are we supposed to just take it while they have a safe haven across the border?
McINERNEY: No, we shouldn't, John, and until we take Syria seriously and take action on this - because we know there are between 250 to 300 thousand Iraqis in Syria. They're living in the western part of Damascus. They're driving expensive cars, eating in expensive restaurants. They are funding this terrorist insurgency and so, until we take action with Damascus to where they either get rid of em or we're gonna have to do it, we're not going to win. That's where the money, that's where the funding, that's where the leadership is coming [from] and so they they are vitally part of that sanctuary there and we can no longer tolerate it."
GIBSON: General, once again I was just telling the audience [that] there's a whole segment coming on this later. But, as a former Air Force General are we supposed to bomb em or send in black teams or what?
McINERNEY: All of the above, John. Do it covertly. Do it with certain special weapons that we can put in stealth aircraft when we know where they are, and that'll get the signal across to them very quickly. And, if not, then there's gonna have to be a regime change in Syria."
INTERVIEW WITH ELI LAKE, NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER, NEW YORK SUN, BIG STORY, 12/29/04
VIDEOCLIP (undated) of J. Adam Ereli, Deputy Spokesman, Bureau of Public Affairs.
ERELI: ":..continued presence of former regime elements in Syria, who are working, we believe, to the detriment of Iraq and in support of the insurgency is a problem..." End VIDEOCLIP.
GIBSON: Our State Department says Syria is supporting terrorism in Iraq by giving safe haven to members of Saddam's regime. Syrian leaders deny it. They say the White House is looking for a scapegoat. But, is Syria part of the problem? New York Sun National Security Reporter Eli Lake joins me from Washington. The Big Question: So just as a matter of factual information, is Syria supporting terrorism in Iraq?
LAKE: Absolutely. The US Embassy in Damascus in March of 2003 [REMINDER: That was the month the war started.] had cables going back to Washington that said that there were individual jihadists signing up at state campgrounds and buses that went into Iraq. In August of this year, Prime Minister Ayad Allawi even sent an emissary to negotiate with Ba'athist elements in Syria to try to maybe bring them into a political process. This is a well established fact in the national security community.
GIBSON: OK. Do we know - we're talkin' about Saddamistas, the Ba'athists who escaped when the US invasion occurred - went into Syria - took a lot of money with them, right?
LAKE: Yes.
GIBSON: OK. They got a pile of dough. They're living very well. Big villas. Expensive cars. Nice restaurants. Protection of the government. And they're spending that money to send jihadis into Iraq - blow up Americans. Do we know who they are and where they're - that is, a particular address? If we had a target, particular villas in Damascus, could we do it?
LAKE: Well, I don't know that the US would have that level of specific intelligence. But I would imagine that they probably did. Keep in mind the Israelis seems to have found Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad leaders in Damascus and you could say their cars had some pretty faulty transmissions, so I would think that the Americans would probably have that kind of detailed intelligence.
GIBSON: OK. Now, is the American government thinking about doing that?
LAKE: Well, in May of 2003 the Pentagon presented an options paper to the White House that outlined a series of aggressive steps that included putting American warships in Syrian territorial waters and even, I guess, interdicting certain flights that we believed would be bringing arms to Hezbollah in Lebanon and other sorts of things like that. So there are options on the table. At the time, however, Secretary of State Powell prevailed in the policy discussions and went to Damascus and tried to get the Syrians to, I guess you could say, cooperate with the goal of having an election and bringing democracy to Iraq. And, indeed, the Syrians participated in a conference last night - last month, I should say - in Egypt, where the goal of this was there and I think we've seen sort of a month later the results haven't come, so I think you're starting to see a rethinking of the policy.
GIBSON: OK. Now. Just to remind people what Syria is. Young Bashar Assad, the son of Hafez Assad, who ran the place until he died, has absolute control. There's no way to say that Ba'athists could be in Syria, operating across the border into Iraq, without him knowing and without his tacit permission. Correct?
LAKE: Well, he is the dictator. There are some people who would say that Bashar Assad does not exercise the sort of power that other dictators in the region have. But, at the same time, he would never admit this. I think this. When Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage goes there, he would never say "But I'm incapable of stopping this." I think it's clear to say that the Syrian government would never allow people who worked with Saddam Hussein or other terrorists to live or operate freely in the country without at least [indecipherable because Gibson drowns him out] ... yeah.
GIBSON (interrupting, overtalking): We know the Syrians aren't exactly our best pals. But why would they so openly taunt the American government, especially one that is willing to use its military power? Why do they think they're protected from being hit back?
LAKE: Well, I think that the calculation from a number of regimes in the region is that America's overextended, that it can't fight counterinsurgency correctly ...
GIBSON (interrupts): The Air Force isn't very busy right now, is it?
LAKE: Well, I mean, I think that's true, but I think there's also a sense that these terrorist attacks against American soldiers and against Iraqis will sap the will of the American people to countenance any further aggression. I think that's the calculation that they're making.
GIBSON (overtalking last 8 words): Do you think the American people will take getting hit over and over and over while leaving their attackers in a safe zone?
LAKE: Well, you could say that the Viet Cong certainly made that strategic analysis and they were probably correct until the early 1970s, in that neighboring states were sort of left immune, I guess.
GIBSON: Yeah, but we don't - you don't think the American government would bomb Syria secretly like we bombed Cambodia secretly? We'd be right out in the open, wouldn't it [sic]?
LAKE: I think it would be pretty clear. But as I said, I don't have an insight for saying exactly what the policy course could be. It could be as simple as what the Israelis have done against terrorist leaders who were attacking Israeli civilians. And you could just see covert operations that end up blowing up important Ba'athist figures, who are harboring, who are harbored there.
GIBSON: Alright.
LAKE: You could see a number of other things as well.
GIBSON: Well, I hope we do. ...
INTERVIEW WITH COL. DAVID HUNT (US Army-Ret.), THE O'Reilly FACTOR, 12/29/04 (John Gibson substituting for Bill O'Reilly)
GIBSON: So, what are we to make of this? Osama is run - operating - on two fronts - attack the Americans in Iraq and the Saudis in Saudi Arabia.
HUNT: The - uh - Saudi - well, I think - uh - bin La - Saudi - bin Laden would like ya' ta' think that. I mean, there's always been a problem with bin Laden and the royal family. He's not made a secret of trying to overthrow it. The problem the Saudis have had is stepping up to the plate with an aggressive counterterrorism campaign, which they seem to begin to do. But, in Iraq I think bin Laden's trying to take credit for the efforts of this other thug, Zarqawi, and is kind of trying to embrace him and take credit for things that Zarqawi's doing, by calling him one of his lieutenants. Both places are bad news but killing a lot of very good people. The Iraqi thing is, of course, pointing towards this election at the end of the month.
GIBSON: One of the things that just makes ya' want to take a deep breath and deep sigh. Here are these Iraqi cops with American soldiers - Marines, I think - go to a house where they've been told there's a bunch of terrorists and instead, it's a booby-trapped house loaded with tons of explosives. They go inside. The terrorists set off the explosives and kill the Iraqi police. Are we havin' a little trouble playin' smart here?
HUNT: We're havin' trouble getting cooperation from the Iraqis in that area that this happened. There's ton of explosives that moved into this building. No one called, not one noticed, everyone's got a blind eye in that community of Iraqis. The other problem is we're havin' a little bit of a problem recruiting good Iraqi intelligence operatives to work against the terrorists and the insurgents in that country. The Iraqis have gotta step up and protect their own country. We cannot keep doing this for them and that seems to be the problem we've got right now. We're doing all the fighting, all the intelligence gathering with Iraqis - Sunni and Shi'a - less the Kurds, the Kurds are the one outfit that seem to be doing it well and getting it right. We need to use them more.
Iraqis need to lose a little bit before they'll get it. The Kurds certainly get it. But, we have had problems. Witness what happened yesterday. Although we've got very brave police, they still keep going to work, but we're not gettin' the cooperation on the front we need, which is the intelligence business or caring neighbors, who would pick up the phone and said [sic] "by the way, there's a dump truck out here that took a million tons of explosives into this house last week." That's not going on and I think maybe we have to back up a bit and let the Iraqis get whacked a little bit harder before they get it. They've got an election comin' up. That's gonna happen. But, if they're gonna be a success, they've to to stand up for their own country.
[COMMENT: Col. Hunt seems to forget that WE attacked the Iraqis. WE destroyed their buildings. WE took away their jobs. WE ruined their drinking water. WE interrupted their electricity service. WE created the mess that is Iraq today. And, now this pompous old man says that the Iraqis need to experience MORE loss in order to bring them to their senses? The utter insanity of his remarks boggles the mind!]
GIBSON: OK. Speaking of not getting it. Syria. [It] is now fairly well established that the former Ba'athists who escaped when Saddam didn't, got into Syria. They're in Syria, living well in Damascus. Everyone knows they're there. They've got billions of dollars, evidently, of the $13 billion Saddam made smuggling oil and they're funding these operations inside Iraq. What do we have to do to Syria, so they get it and stop it?
HUNT: We - there's a visit to President Assad the son of the last dictator-terrorist in Syria and his intelligence chiefs - and ya' take a movie over there called "Shock and Awe" and, while ya' have the meeting, have F15's fly over and shake the windows and - I'm serious about this. Same thing with Iran. They stop it now. We can't seal that border. It's too big. 1,500 kilometers. But you have to get to the political leadership and say "one more of this and we're comin' after you." I don't want to invade Syria, but we do have to get the point to them to knock it off. These are our guys getting killed by money they're sending.
GIBSON (overtalks the last 5 words): Colonel Hunt, we're stretched a little thin on the ground, but the Air Force have [sic] got plenty of time on its hands, doesn't it?
HUNT: Absolutely.
GIBSON: Bombs away!
HUNT: They're very good at it, they're very good at it.
GIBSON: Colonel Hunt. David Hunt. Thank you very much.
